Pulling Doubles, are they as intimidating as I'm thinking?

Powder Joints · Dec 11, 2022

My only advise is take your time, don't rush anything. Think your actions thru. Allow twice the distance and time you think you need, time and experience will adjust it down. Don't believe the stories about how far someone can back a set of joints, most are not worth the air they consume. Good luck and God Bless.

MACK E-6 · Dec 12, 2022

Mnmover99 said: ↑

Good idea to wait until spring to start. Doubles pull easier than you think. Just make sure the heavy trailer is in front, and the dolly axle is lighter than the rear axle of the front trailer. You need to be alert of the idea that small steering moves can be increased to a crack the whip effect for the rear trailer. Going around corners is easier for a set of doubles as it just follows like a snake. You will most likely have a twin screw tractor that is heavier than most trailers. Learn how to fix air leaks and change glad hand seals. After hooking a set, do 1 more walk around to double check everything. Extra light cord is a good idea also.
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Pups pull hard and ride like #### IMHO. You’ll have 6 axles if you’re driving a twin screw, which means more rubber scrubbing the ground which increases rolling resistance. Also, a snow storm will create a whole new set of issues with more dead axles to pull than your drives.

Turning is definitely easier though. More pivot points eliminates a lot of off track.

It’s okay for the dolly to outweigh the lead trailer axle, so long as the rear trailer axle scales lighter than both. That just means the trailer is a but nose heavy. If it doesn’t, it’s a good bet you have a reverse hook.

Kennyworth67 · Dec 13, 2022

MACK E-6 said: ↑

Pups pull hard and ride like #### IMHO. You’ll have 6 axles if you’re driving a twin screw, which means more rubber scrubbing the ground which increases rolling resistance. Also, a snow storm will create a whole new set of issues with more dead axles to pull than your drives.

Turning is definitely easier though. More pivot points eliminates a lot of off track.

It’s okay for the dolly to outweigh the lead trailer axle, so long as the rear trailer axle scales lighter than both. That just means the trailer is a but nose heavy. If it doesn’t, it’s a good bet you have a reverse hook.
Click to expand...

What's a reverse hook? If you don't mind, could you please tell me more about pulling them in the snow and ice over mountain grades?

Kennyworth67 · Dec 13, 2022

Powder Joints said: ↑

My only advise is take your time, don't rush anything. Think your actions thru. Allow twice the distance and time you think you need, time and experience will adjust it down. Don't believe the stories about how far someone can back a set of joints, most are not worth the air they consume. Good luck and God Bless.
Click to expand...

I've seen then backed up in Europe a few times. My jaw hit the ground. I'm not interested in learning anything like that right off the bat- if at all. But, yeah, that's why I don't want to do anything till the spring. I'll have enough on my plate without throwing crap weather into the mix too.

Kennyworth67 · Dec 13, 2022

tscottme said: ↑

Thanks for the compliment, if it was meant for me. I moved around a lot as a kid and I HATED feeling lost in a new situations or outside from others, so I try and rush to help anyone that is new and seems like they WANT help. Many people do not want help, and it's a waste of time to help them. The quality of trainers in the industry has fallen off a cliff in the last 20-30 years. The good trainers are still training, but companies need 5 times more trainers and MANY trainers are just some solo driver with 90 days of accident-free experience or more that will agree to be paid more to train. The tanker company I worked for paid trainers $125 more per day for every day they had a trainee, plus their normal CPM/hourly rate as a driver. There are a ton of bad driver/trainers. They insist their way is the only way. Luckily you have experience driving so you shouldn't ignore that. As a rule the mega companies have a wide variety of trainers, only a few are good, while medium and smaller companies have less variety so you get what you get, good or bad. The nature of doubles would likely weed out seriously bad trainers. While I am hot-tempered once I'm in my area of expertise, In direct and personal situations I learned to ask questions rather than say what I want to say the way I want to say it. Instead of "hey, back-off MP-er you are going to run over that a-hole 4-wheeler" My first comment will be "so, does the company have any particular rules about how much following distance they require?" If that doesn't work, I can easily go from 0-100 mph in the "discussion."

Once you are with a trainer try and distinguish what techniques or demands of the trainer are what he wants so his truck remains his truck and what demands are company/legal requirements. Just accept the personal demands of the trainer how he operates his truck, since that is the quickest way to your solo truck. I'm sure you have much more and better personal skills than us typical solo truck drivers. I like to take advantage of being new in a situation to ask questions that can sound stupid, but are often me confirming I understand what I think I have been told or shown. Also, being new you have more leeway to be careful and not rush. Don't be your own worst enemy. I really want to get to next level quality ASAP. My go-to question is usually "OK, what do all the newbies do in this situation you really want my to not do." Sometimes, not making that standard rookie mistake instantly puts you on the easy path or almost varsity level. Everything suggests to me you just need to so how things are supposed to be done and you are not starting off with no experience like 90% of trainees who have never even had to try and drive without doing 9 things on their smartphone and actively working to be distracted. Most newbies are the same idiot drivers in 4-wheelers who haven't once thought about improving their driving since they got a license at age 16. Drivng has ALWAYS been a background task and success was just being alive at the end of the day. Your half-million safe miles in or around urban areas is easly worth a million or two on the highways, if not more. In the airline industry when a pilot moves form one aircraft to another, he doesn't have to learn how to fly, like he did with his first license and aircraft. He is essentially just learning the differences between his last aircraft and next aircraft. The normal and common techniques to all aircraft are almost all handled at, if not the subconscious level far away from the wide-eyed and overwhelmed level real newbies enter the industry. You're probably going to get minor injuries like pinches of hand and feet or minor cuts from making/breaking sets or man-handling dollies, but you are not going to be swamped and questioning IF you can do this. Be careful, ask questions, double-check all connections, and be super alert when doing something new. You may be perfectly set-up to succeed in doubles with multiple advantages working for you. It sound like that to me. I'm no expert. I'm just a guy on the internet.

There should be a ton of videos on YT about making/breaking a set. I would watch those, especially the videos made by a school or trucking company. Those school/company videos probably have more careful procedures than the ones made by one driver. Sometimes the oen driver making the video is a perfectionist that is showing master-level techniques the company/schools don't waste their time with. Sometimes the single driver videos are the cowboy showing how he cuts corners and gets it done the easiest/fastest way. Until you can tell the difference between master-level or real super trucker and just the most common bad habits I'd stick with the school/company videos. There is often a leg that extends from the nose of the pup trailer meant to prevent the trailer from tipping forward when in the dock door. It's a foot destroyer. When you raise or lower that leg on the nose make a triangle with your feet and the foot of that leg. If you don't it will drop onto your foot and destroy a few toes or break your foot.

In dry van and reefer most newbies are being shows the "just barely good enough" way plus all of the bad habits that help a 90 day trainer push newbies into their solo truck the quickest and it really really shows on the roads and truck stops.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up about the ''legs'' on the pups. I've seen them before but never used them. When I worked local on a cross dock- we had these things, can't remember what they were called - that did the same thing. You rolled them into place and put them under the nose of the trailer when you dropped one in a door.

Kennyworth67 · Dec 13, 2022

tscottme said: ↑

Thanks for the compliment, if it was meant for me. I moved around a lot as a kid and I HATED feeling lost in a new situations or outside from others, so I try and rush to help anyone that is new and seems like they WANT help. Many people do not want help, and it's a waste of time to help them. The quality of trainers in the industry has fallen off a cliff in the last 20-30 years. The good trainers are still training, but companies need 5 times more trainers and MANY trainers are just some solo driver with 90 days of accident-free experience or more that will agree to be paid more to train. The tanker company I worked for paid trainers $125 more per day for every day they had a trainee, plus their normal CPM/hourly rate as a driver. There are a ton of bad driver/trainers. They insist their way is the only way. Luckily you have experience driving so you shouldn't ignore that. As a rule the mega companies have a wide variety of trainers, only a few are good, while medium and smaller companies have less variety so you get what you get, good or bad. The nature of doubles would likely weed out seriously bad trainers. While I am hot-tempered once I'm in my area of expertise, In direct and personal situations I learned to ask questions rather than say what I want to say the way I want to say it. Instead of "hey, back-off MP-er you are going to run over that a-hole 4-wheeler" My first comment will be "so, does the company have any particular rules about how much following distance they require?" If that doesn't work, I can easily go from 0-100 mph in the "discussion."

Once you are with a trainer try and distinguish what techniques or demands of the trainer are what he wants so his truck remains his truck and what demands are company/legal requirements. Just accept the personal demands of the trainer how he operates his truck, since that is the quickest way to your solo truck. I'm sure you have much more and better personal skills than us typical solo truck drivers. I like to take advantage of being new in a situation to ask questions that can sound stupid, but are often me confirming I understand what I think I have been told or shown. Also, being new you have more leeway to be careful and not rush. Don't be your own worst enemy. I really want to get to next level quality ASAP. My go-to question is usually "OK, what do all the newbies do in this situation you really want my to not do." Sometimes, not making that standard rookie mistake instantly puts you on the easy path or almost varsity level. Everything suggests to me you just need to so how things are supposed to be done and you are not starting off with no experience like 90% of trainees who have never even had to try and drive without doing 9 things on their smartphone and actively working to be distracted. Most newbies are the same idiot drivers in 4-wheelers who haven't once thought about improving their driving since they got a license at age 16. Drivng has ALWAYS been a background task and success was just being alive at the end of the day. Your half-million safe miles in or around urban areas is easly worth a million or two on the highways, if not more. In the airline industry when a pilot moves form one aircraft to another, he doesn't have to learn how to fly, like he did with his first license and aircraft. He is essentially just learning the differences between his last aircraft and next aircraft. The normal and common techniques to all aircraft are almost all handled at, if not the subconscious level far away from the wide-eyed and overwhelmed level real newbies enter the industry. You're probably going to get minor injuries like pinches of hand and feet or minor cuts from making/breaking sets or man-handling dollies, but you are not going to be swamped and questioning IF you can do this. Be careful, ask questions, double-check all connections, and be super alert when doing something new. You may be perfectly set-up to succeed in doubles with multiple advantages working for you. It sound like that to me. I'm no expert. I'm just a guy on the internet.

There should be a ton of videos on YT about making/breaking a set. I would watch those, especially the videos made by a school or trucking company. Those school/company videos probably have more careful procedures than the ones made by one driver. Sometimes the oen driver making the video is a perfectionist that is showing master-level techniques the company/schools don't waste their time with. Sometimes the single driver videos are the cowboy showing how he cuts corners and gets it done the easiest/fastest way. Until you can tell the difference between master-level or real super trucker and just the most common bad habits I'd stick with the school/company videos. There is often a leg that extends from the nose of the pup trailer meant to prevent the trailer from tipping forward when in the dock door. It's a foot destroyer. When you raise or lower that leg on the nose make a triangle with your feet and the foot of that leg. If you don't it will drop onto your foot and destroy a few toes or break your foot.

In dry van and reefer most newbies are being shows the "just barely good enough" way plus all of the bad habits that help a 90 day trainer push newbies into their solo truck the quickest and it really really shows on the roads and truck stops.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've never understood the wisdom of a 90 Day Wonder trainer either. The blind leading the blind. I don't figure anyone has any business being a trainer until you've gotten at least 5 years of experience yourself. Especially for winter driving. How are you going to teach someone something you've no experience with yourself. That practice has GOT to be costing carriers a lot of money that doesn't need to be spent paying out for accidents.

MACK E-6 · Dec 13, 2022

Kennyworth67 said: ↑

What's a reverse hook? If you don't mind, could you please tell me more about pulling them in the snow and ice over mountain grades?
Click to expand...

A reverse hook is the heavier trailer in the back. Avoid this whenever possible.

My mountain experience is rather limited so I personally would say avoid that whenever possible too.

tscottme · Dec 13, 2022

Kennyworth67 said: ↑

I've seen then backed up in Europe a few times. My jaw hit the ground. I'm not interested in learning anything like that right off the bat- if at all. But, yeah, that's why I don't want to do anything till the spring. I'll have enough on my plate without throwing crap weather into the mix too.
Click to expand...

I've seen videos on YouTUbe of FedEx drivers in L.A. pulling into a warehouse yard and backing the trailers into a dock door. This wasn't the FedEx driver maneuvering and getting directy in front of the dock door and backing straight all the way to the dock. This was very much like you would do a 45 degree back into a dock door with a 48 or 53 ft trailer.

There are a type of double trailer called Super B, IIRC, that CAN have a device that locks the two trailers at the converter dolly and allows a non-super human driver to back like he is backing one trailer. The first few times I saw that, I thought the driver must have been from the future or unnaturally talented. The videos that impress me are the ones where a doubles set has a bend or is backed around a bit of a corner, showing they don't have the "keep it straight" device making it look super human.

tscottme · Dec 13, 2022

Kennyworth67 said: ↑

I've seen then backed up in Europe a few times. My jaw hit the ground. I'm not interested in learning anything like that right off the bat- if at all. But, yeah, that's why I don't want to do anything till the spring. I'll have enough on my plate without throwing crap weather into the mix too.
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised if as much as 10% of drivers pulling doubles can back a set of pups more than 1 or 2 feet STRAIGHT back. That's not a skill a routine doubles driver will be expected to have. It's more like those fancy ink pen twirling things while talking on a phone they show in a movie about Wall Street brokers, etc. Yeah it's cool and it can be done, but it's not necessary or common.

tscottme · Dec 13, 2022

Kennyworth67 said: ↑

Thanks for the heads up about the ''legs'' on the pups. I've seen them before but never used them. When I worked local on a cross dock- we had these things, can't remember what they were called - that did the same thing. You rolled them into place and put them under the nose of the trailer when you dropped one in a door.
Click to expand...

If there are no legs attached to the nos eof the trailer you can place or wheel a jack-stand under the trailer to prevent the trailers from nose-diving if a forklift get too close to the nose, on the inside of the trailer. The key with jack stands is NEVER EVER crank them all the way to the bottom of the trailer or you may never ever get them away from that trailer again. ALWASY leave an air-gap between the jack stand and the greasy underside of the trailer, maybe an inch.

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