Prime's lease deal. The math gets done.

You want numbers I can give you numbers. I have been both company and lease. Prime is not all their cracked up to be. I have not read all 34 pages of this thread yet, and I suppose someone has already said something, but the analogy of the CB shop doesn't work. The problem with the comparison is that if you were to open a CB shop would you sign a lease that had the condition that you can only do business with your landlord and no one else? It was explained in orientation that if you lease a truck, you lease on to prime, or you don't lease a truck. I just recently turned my truck in because I got sick and tired of fighting over money week after week after week. I will explain in more detail if you really want to know, but frankly I don't need the higher blood pressure.

 

dont believe evrything you hear and only half of what you see.

 

This link shows my 25 1/2 weeks before and after having to do a little radiation and chemo treatments! The year before was $74,000! This is as a company driver. The company is now a useless L/P company so you know those numbers won't be happening except for "gross" figures! But there used to be money as a company driver before this "recession" "depression" or ripoff happened!

http://www.thetruckersreport.com/tr...ckers-advice/108869-my-25-week-w-2-proof.html

 

The real crime here with all the lease "purchase" programs is not what is being charged. Most of the people that are doing them could not qualify even with years of O/O experience to lease a new tractor. And if they could you would not see the numbers doing an individual lease on a tractor being much different. The economics of the business are not their to support the purchase of a $120k unit and own it at the end of 5-6 years.

But the real crime is that most of the people that they allow to go into these deals don't have the business ability to understand the numbers or the risks. When you have a new driver who doesn't understand the industry. They don't really know how to calculate a true CPM and have NO business experience. There is a reason even with the best credit no bank would finance them. The odds of failing are high.

 

Well... lets be specific. This thread is about Prime, not "these deals." For the most part, its a straight lease here... "renta truck" as folks like to call it. If the freight revenue is there to support it, its not such a bad way to go. This forum is also filled with stories of woe about some driver who went out and bought a "KEWL TRUK" because it looks neat and eats diesel like a dog snarfin' on a swiped steak... with absolutely no plan except hoping for a few scraps of 90-cpm freight off of some load board. Nothin' like being an owner of a "KEWL TRUK" with a blown turbo and no $$$ in the bank to fix it.

I'll agree with you 100% about the rest of it. Although I don't see it as a "crime," the majority of people who come on this forum whining about Prime's lease program generally 1) don't read the lease, 2) sign it anyway, 3) have no clue about what they're doing outside of mashing the throttle as hard as they can expecting the millions to start rolling in, 4) don't even begin to know what the information in their settlement statements are telling them, 5) spend every friggin' cent they make as an advance and don't remember they spent it, 6) wonder why they're getting in debt and their cash flow is zero (see comment about forgotten advances), 7) and when they get in so deep they can't see daylight crawl over here to whine about "how come Prime screwed them."

Generally newbs don't need no stinkin' truck lease, lease/purchase agreement, or a truck payment of any sort. If you haven't driven a truck long enough to know how to do it efficiently, haven't taken some basic business classes, know what a profit/loss statement is or know how to interpret a settlement statement, you're in over your head before you start. And this is an unforgiving business.

OTOH, if you're saying that those wunnerful folks from the gubberment should come over and help us out by making us all 12-cpm wage-slave employees, then we're going to disagree. Part n' parcel of our economic system - capitalism - is the right to try to shoot for the moon and fall flat on your face in utter failure. Happens every day, and not just in trucking. Because the other side of the coin is the guy who starts with ONE freakin' truck, a plan, and ends up owning a company and 4,000 trucks.

 

Ironpony, I WAS a prime lease op for 2 years. For the most part is wasn't bad. When I could run. I was dispatched out of PRIPIT. Before you say anything, I know. That was half my problem. Can't count how many times I heard that from other drivers in the lounges # sprimo among other places I ran into current and ex prime drivers. My problems were when I was out for weeks at a time and was in the hole for anywhere 2-6 weeks. Prime is a no forced dispatch system, thats fine. Until you refuse a load. Then the rates get worse from there. Example: I turn down a load that had 90 MT miles with 76 loaded miles and pays $340. Not bad on a per mile basis, but here is the kicker, I was dispatched on this on Monday nite. P/U is tues PM, del. is wed PM. Now who in there right mind is going to spend 2.5-3 days on a load that pays 340. Same day delivery maybe. I might have taken it. but c'mon! It got worse from there. How about spending 4-5 weeks in New England, begging dispatch to get me out west, having not seen south of the Mason-Dixon in over a month. When I met my FM for the first time after signing the lease, he asked me how and where I wanted to run. Told him I prefered to stay east of the rockies, but would do the west coast if need be. Medium to long runs 800-2000 miles at a shot. 2000 miles even # 1.10, I still made a pretty good check. I spent most of my time running short hop overniters. 300-600 miles for typically $300-$750. Anything over $900 I was like a little kid on Christmas. Lifetime MPG 6.6 according to the little tell-tale button. BTW its not just knowing how to read a settlement, its comparing your settlement to the white sheets that come with your settlement. To date Prime owes me around $2800 in unpaid stop pay, billed & approved detention, unpaid deadhead, unpaid layover. How about delivering to Columbus, OH in the AM, being dispatched in the PM (same day) and not being able to log the hours legally and make delivery on time. I told dispatch I had to turn the load assignment down because I didn't have the hours to run it, and asked if there was anything else with different timeframes. FM got pissed. Now don't get me wrong, on paper I would shave 15 mins here or there to make things work, but this one I would have to make HOURS disappear. Wasn't happening. Was told to deadhead from Columbus, OH to Gary, IN. I asked if DH was paid, was told they don't pay deadhead when I refuse a load. 360 miles on my dime? So, I caved. I went as far as my logbook would let me, Lebanon, IN. I shut down there at the "J". Was dispatched the next AM picking up there in Lebanon # americold (I think. It was one of the cold storages there) Problem was I was dispatched on the 1st, load didn't pick up till 1800 on the 3rd. I started asking about layover, answer NO not when you turn down a load. I fought for months with them about it. That was back in January. Haven't seen it. Don't expect it. Was sent to RAILX. Picked up, all good, was to deliver to C&S in Chester, NY. Sat around C&S for 8 hours, typical right? Prime tried to bill for detention, was refused. I wasn't expecting any because it was C&S. Problem was 2 pallets of lemons or something (I dont remember off hand) was refused. Well when I didn't get out of there till after 2200, I didn't expect to get a hold of claims. Notified dispatch (night dispatch is useless anyway) was told I had to call claims in AM. OK no biggie. Rolled out of there an set up camp # a rest area off I-84. Got ahold of claims in the AM and had to wait to find out what RAILX wanted to do with the refused product. 1100 rolls around and I'm told to take the product back to RAILX. Told claims as well as dispatch I needed fuel first and would head back up to shipper and would be there as soon as I could. Rolled into RAILX just a little before 1400. They were gone. Doors locked parking lot was empty, I was the only fool there. Got on the QC with dispatch. Was told I would have to wait until Monday AM to drop tlr. This was Sunday by the way. The load was to P/U Sat AM and deliver Sat PM (1600 I think). I deadheaded from Walmart over in Johnstown and the loaded miles were like 116. It paid $450 or so. Anyway, I left and went and sat down at the Pilot up the road. On my way out I asked security when the crew # RAILX left. "Oh, they all left here about 1" I was fit to be tied. Your telling me NO ONE at RAILX told prime claims "Oh, by the way let your driver know we leave today at 1" or NO ONE at prime bothered to ask "What are your hours today?" Apparently not. I had to sit under 2 pallets of product, produce no less, for 32 hours. Of course on produce sensitive. I was paid the miles back to the shipper. At a lower rate than the original rate, which I guess I can understand, it was only 2 pallets. I was told by dispatch that you will be "compensated". First thing tuesday AM I am ######## for detention/layover. I was told $500 had been billed and I had to wait for customer to pay. Didn't like it but OK. I had checked up on the detention 3 or 4 times in the coming months. Was told each time that it had been billed and that I would just have to wait until the customer paid the bill. I found out 4 months later that not one dime had been billed. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch. NOT ONE FRIGGIN DIME!!! I was waiting for detention that would never be paid, after being lied to numerous times over the past 4 months. So all in all the load paid $625 for 3 days of work. This is the quality of Pittston Dispatch?? When I asked about a load that had 3 drops and wanted to know why I was not paid my 72% of the $225 stop pay that was billed, I got a bunch of "Umms & I don't knows" When I told payroll that charges on the white sheets were not being paid to me, she looked at me as if I had just landed. She had no clue what a white sheet was. I told her "You know, the copies of the bills that come with the settlements in the mail." All I got was a blank stare. I couldn't help thinking to myself you have got to be kidding!!!! NO CLUE!! I finally turned my truck in, in disgust and frustration. I couldn't take it anymore. Did I fail, NO. Did I loose my house, my car, am I behind on my personal bills, NO. But I could have brought home more money washing dishes at Friendly's. They pay 9.75/hour. By the way my advances usually were only $20-$50 bucks a week. Hell, with all the short trips I had most of my advances were only 7 or 9 bucks. At least that way I could pay for a CAT scale without having to hit up the checking acct. If your leased and dispatched out of Pittston or Pissed On, pay close close close attention to your settlements. I tried, I finally surrendered.

 

Umm... paragraphs please!

Not going to defend that... sounds like you were lease-op during the worst part of the recession, yes? Bad time for everyone, especially someone with a truck payment.

Look, I feel for ya. Especially anyone dispatched out of Pittston after we took over from TRL. It took a long time to flush that out of the system, and I can say that I'm certainly glad I didn't get involved with their people even at this point. As long as their dispatch and load planners were getting a guaranteed salary (not commission based on performance like everyone else) they had no incentive to perform, and the freight wasn't there for anyone. And it sure doesn't help when JB et, al start putting freight on the rails for nada-per-mile. That's gotta be close to selling your soul to the devil (named "railroad") I'd say.

If I was in your position, I'd bail too... and a lot of large outfits bailed over the last couple of years. Just saw a painted-over JEVIC trailer the other day - they'd been around for years and couldn't make it.

The point I was getting at is that you can't have the possibility of succeeding without the chance that you're going to fail too. Everyone wants the chance to grab for the brass ring - but then hey! We can't be falling from the horse either. Doesn't work that way. This makes the fourth business I've tried to make work, and so far its happenning. If I'd tried to make a lease work two years ago, I'd have fallen flat on my face when the economy crapped-out in late '08 too. Of course it doesn't help when your FM isn't in your corner - which it certainly sounds like is what happened to you. Hand picked my guy - and I figure that was part of due diligence when I started this.

So what are you saying books? That no one should have an opportunity to try to make it work?

 

The rent a Truck Lease Deal = Dumber than a Box of Rocks

 

Alleycatt2: The dumbest rock in the box o' rocks. He wants to work for 12-cpm and get 100 miles a week.

 

just mo but cents per mile,cost per ton etc...are all bogus numbers it like any form of compensation needs to be equated to time if that truck doesn't make at least 85 an hour it is not worth doing and it should make a 100 or better
Mine run in the 110 to 140 range
so buy yourself a dump truck and stay home you will make more $$s than you ever will with one of these outfits