Just some of the stupid things I see

In that line of thinking, what would you do if a driver exercised his 5th amendment right and refused to be a witness against himself? If he says "I'm not going to prevent you from doing anything you want to do, but I'm not going to help you do it, either. Here's the truck. If you want it weighed, weigh it. If you want to inspect it, inspect it. I will sit wherever you direct me to sit to watch as you do what you feel you need to do, but I will not actively assist your efforts."

The 5th amendment says nothing about any "right to remain silent". What it DOES say, however, is that "No person...shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself", and as long the possibility exists for a state to charge drivers with a criminal offense should the officer find anything wrong (i.e. Utah: Violation of the authorized weight limitation is a class B misdemeanor ), then I as a "person" have EVERY right not to be compelled by the state to be a witness against myself. I'd even argue that forcing drivers to complete a record of duty status AND hand it over to any inquiring officer is a violation of that driver's 5th Amendment right to not be a witness against himself because he is being compelled by the state to complete a document which will be used against him in a matter that could quickly turn into a criminal charge, as evidenced by any driver currently behind bars for getting into a wreck when their log book wasn't quite "legal". It isn't in the driver's best interest....there is no reward for handing over a perfectly legal log book. There is, however, a potentially severe penalty imposed if the officer finds that the i's aren't all dotted or the t's aren't all crossed.

 

You make several valid points, however the 5th Amendment is used for the actual judgement or court. They cannot force you to be a witness against yourself in court. But I see your point, and there is a double standard here... Officers of the law evoke this same right when they speed in a patrol car, and a witness wants them to write themselves a ticket.

If you don't comply with the officer at a stop(ie pull your truck on his portable scales) The officer could cite you for interfering with an investigation... or worse obstruction, which is a felony.

Many people also think that they HAVE to totally comply. This is not true, and offer as little info to the officer as possible... answer MOSTLY yes or no to questions... NEVER elaborate, NEVER argue your case at the stop... it's not the time or place. Never think that an officer will not lie under oath in court... they WILL lie lie lie. If, you think they are in error... when the stop is over... take pictures and lots of them... take pitures of the location it surroundings... a shot of you GPS for a valid local.

However, try not to alert the officer that you plan to fight the ticket, as they WILL stack multiple tickets against you... usually judges will make you pay at least one.

There IS also a reason the most citations are in fact misdemeanors... Typically judges are the sole arbitrators in these cases, and they want and understand that they need revenue. So a trail by jury on the Constitutionality of a case is extremely unlikely.

 

The officer is in the process of gathering evidence to use against you IN COURT should he find anything wrong with which to cite you. There is a REASON Miranda warnings are given...because anything you say can AND WILL BE used against you if/when you get to court. You are under NO obligation to help the state build it's case against you. Ever. Whether you've been "read your rights" yet or not.

That isn't even remotely the same thing. The law often includes exemptions which allows LEO's to break the law (i.e. exceed the speed limit) in order to enforce the law...otherwise, they would never be able to catch up to the speeding driver. No matter how many times it is tried, a vehicle traveling at the 65 mph speed limit will never catch up to an 80 mph speeder.

In other words, you are being compelled to aid the state in building the case against you....you are being forced to be a witness against yourself which is CLEARLY prohibited by the 5th amendment. I'm not saying you should refuse to allow your truck to be weighed....just that you shouldn't be required to help the officer weigh your truck. I'm not saying that you should refuse to allow your truck to be inspected....just that you shouldn't have to sit in the truck flipping switches and applying brake pressure to help the officer inspect the truck.

An officer is trained to lie to a suspect....to "role play" in order to cause the suspect to be willing to talk to the officer and....to mislead a suspect into believing the officer knows more than he really does in order to possibly get a confession. I would like to think an officer wouldn't be dumb enough to commit perjury by lying under oath, because if caught, that would be the end of that officer's career. It is, however, a pretty safe gamble for a lot of officers because the judge/jury will typically look at them as having no reason to be anything less than truthful while on the stand....whereas the accused has EVERY reason to try to lie and say he didn't do what he is accused of doing because he faces fines/jail time if convicted. Although there is not supposed to be one, there is a bias in the courtroom. If you are sitting in the defendant's chair, you already have an uphill battle ahead of you...so why would anyone willingly help the state build their case?

Your rights do not begin at the point in time where you are charged with a crime. You have the right not to be a witness against yourself 24/7/365. Although they do not have to give the Miranda warnings until they are considering charges, you ALWAYS have the right to remain silent/not be a witness against yourself. Even if no charges are filed, you STILL have the rights spelled out in the Constitution.

A misdemeanor is a criminal charge...and Article 3 Section 2 of the Constitution states that "The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed;" In other words, the only way a judge is going to be the only arbitrator in the case is if you waive your right to a trial by jury.

You have the right to waive any right you do not wish to exercise. You can waive your right to not be compelled to be a witness against yourself and offer up a full confession at any point in time. You can waive your right to protections against unlawful searches by granting the officer permission to search when he's asking for it. (Tip: If he's got to ask, he doesn't have the probable cause needed to search without your consent. If he had probable cause, he wouldn't be asking permission.) You can waive your right to a trial by jury and allow your case to be heard by a sole judge. They are YOUR rights...use 'em or waive 'em as you please.

 

I don't understand how you feel OK doing this, sure you ran into a ### who sucked at his job, one of those people making the world more miserable for all off us, but that does not give you an excuse to do the same.

how would you live with your self if some Innocent person got killed, because you were throwing a fit. just because some idiot throws his lights on in an unsafe area does not give you the right to act stupid.

as professional drivers its our responsibility to be safe, just because a LEO is being unsafe , does not give us the right to be.

 

I didn't know the officer before the stop. I will probably never see the officer again once the stop is completed. Why would I be concerned with that officer's safety during the stop? It doesn't matter to me whether the officer makes it home at the end of his shift or not...as long as I wasn't the one who hit him, I won't lose a lick of sleep over it.

In other words, if he's not concerned for his own safety, it certainly won't be any concern of mine either.

...and don't expect me to remove myself from the safety of my truck to render assistance should the officer get hit by a passing motorist. I'd probably call for an ambulance, but that's pretty much the extent of my efforts to help a guy who was injured during his attempt to relieve me of my hard-earned money.

My top priority is to see to it that I make it home again safely and in one piece at the end of each run...and if I can help it, nothing I do while on the road is going to jeopardize that. If the officer was just struck by a passing motorist, it is a pretty good indication that it is not safe for me to be out of the truck.

 

I wasn't talking about the LEO, I was referring to other drivers, like say you stop on a curve and the mom driving the mini van has to serve into oncoming traffic to avoid the LEO, sure you can always say it was the LEO that caused their death, but you still could have avoided it.

I dont think your seeing the big picture.

 

Again, I didn't know the "mom driving the minivan" before the incident, and I'll probably never see her again after. I won't lose a lick of sleep over it. If she had to "swerve into oncoming traffic to avoid the LEO", she was probably traveling too fast or not paying attention...or both. Neither of those factors are within my ability to control, so it isn't my problem.

I worry about my own actions and how they may or may not affect my own safety. If someone else wants to drive in a manner which renders them incapable of reacting safely to things happening on the road in front of them, that is THEIR problem...not mine. At the end of the day, I'll be going home, climbing into bed, and getting a good night's sleep.

 

it is in your control to find a safe place to stop, whether or not you want to admit it. just because you have a hatred for law enforcement, does not mean you have to jeopardize the safety of others.

 

Law enforcement?!? Read what he wrote! If he doesn't know you, he'll sit there and watch you die. I always thought he was just beating straw dogs on here, I now realize we have seen what happens when two year olds never learn that selfishness is not a virtue. Disgust is not a strong enough word what I feel after those last two posts.

Sorry for the derail, DB; I just couldn't let that crap go unremarked.

 

You're not alone.

For the record, and to get back on track, I think that LEO's take the oath to serve the public instead of just being glorified pick-pockets.

And, there are many people, myself included, who would stop and assist in any way possible if I happened to be first on a scene.

Someday, maybe a complete stranger will step in and save Mr. Bulldogs wife and kids, should they exist, and he can think about that "not my problem" attitude while he is shaking the hand of the unselfish person.