Glider kit vs New truck

Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by 01blackz28, Jun 19, 2012.

  1. rollin coal

    rollin coal Road Train Member

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    Tuning a diesel pickup is technically illegal because it usually defeats emmissions controls that choke off performance and economy. Having loud mufflers or none at all - if you drive one right when you go by the cops - they'll be none the wiser. Even dark window tint - all my personal vehicles for the past 15 years have had illegal tint - 5% or darker - all the way around and at the top and bottom on the front windshiled. Never once been hassled about it, and I do know that it could happen, but I will say once when I got pulled over an officer commented that it was a nice clean tint job LOL he also said the turbo (this was my pickup not the big truck) sounded great when I drove by his speed trap LOL. Point being there are lots of "illegal" modifications to cars/trucks millions of people in this country get away with as a matter of routine every single day. Whether a person thinks that is right or wrong is beside the point. People will always do these things and they'll never be able to enforce all their rediculous regulations. I know what you guys are saying about CA regs and how the rest of the country is likely to move and I agree with it. That said I still would not hesitate if I had the money right now to buy a glider, and install an illegally modified marine cammed tuned motor in it, and run it without a worry in the world about ever getting caught....
     
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  3. RedForeman

    RedForeman Momentum Conservationist

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    It's not the same.

    More restrictive emissions control will certainly phase in to new truck sales. Already has. On the other hand, California is the only state that makes those regulations retroactive to the existing fleet at the expense of Californians and the consumers of products delivered by West coast carriers.

    I have many family and friends in California and have discussed this topic at length with a few. One just this past weekend that is involved in local trucking (construction). What's remarkable is how blissfully unaware they are about what all that green regulation costs them as consumers, beyond just the price of regular unleaded at the gas station or a Cali emissions package add on charge on their new hybrid. They've been pumped so full of crap about how great a leader their state is on environmental issues that they think that's just how it should be.

    This weekend's conversation ended on a funny note. He remarked on how all the state regs are so hard on carriers, and I replied that I had solved that problem with my fleet of two. "California is not on my cab cards and I don't do business here. Period." He was genuinely surprised. A sister-in-law now understands why produce and meats cost so much more at their local grocery stores than everywhere else besides California, which happens to be a leading producer of those (as-in not necessary to import). They just don't get how reduced competition that results from all the green policy drives their cost of living up.

    It's unfortunate that most voters (not exclusive to Californians) simply don't grasp the concept that companies don't actually just "take one for the team" when it comes to government mandated cost burdens. Those costs get slid right into the retail price of everything they buy, and it is never itemized on the receipt.
     
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  4. fishhook

    fishhook Light Load Member

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    Glider...no brainer. I agree that eventually the Cali carb enviro nazi bs will migrate east, but I doubt with the present economy many states will drink that koolaid anytime soon.That being said, one of the reasons I bought mine was due to my belief that they will soon kill off the glider option.
     
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  5. wichris

    wichris Road Train Member

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    Whether someone chooses to run CA or not is a personal/business decision. The same for the case of a glider or not. If someone's "business" consist's of only themselve's(or even a few trucks) and that business ceases to exit without them,then their self-imposed limits may be feasible. For other's limiting sales may not be an option.
    For those that run older equipment,of course they don't want that change. Those of us that run new equipment,of course we do.
     
  6. Cowpie1

    Cowpie1 Road Train Member

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    Worrying about what a glider would be worth on the used truck market is not a good reason to buy or not buy a glider. And in many cases, is a lousy reason to buy any truck. Most that are spec'ing out and buying gliders are for a very long investment. A glider is not for those that want to trade out every few years. I was able to order up a glider with all the spec's exactly like I want with the idea that this will be an investment for a long, long time. I don't run west of I-25 so it was a no brainer. I was in the market for a new truck and saved over $40,000 compared to a new truck with all the emissions junk. And considering the lower cost of operation/maintenance on a glider, whatever might have been lost in resale would be more than made up. And has been stated, the powers that be may limit or prohibit sales of gliders in the future, so now was the time to buy. I have serious doubts that the rest of the country will implement CARB style regulations within the useful life of this glider. Heck, most of the country hasn't even implemented emissions testing on autos and pickups yet and have no plans to.
     
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  7. Cowpie1

    Cowpie1 Road Train Member

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    True.... for new production vehicles only. California and some major metro areas implemented emissions testing of vehicles in the 70's but the vast majority of the country still has no emissions testing programs in place or planning any. Not sure about CA, but there are many other states where you can build a "kit" car in your garage, register it, and drive it on the road as long as it meets safety requirements like lights, seat belts, brakes, etc. And you can put any pre emissions engine in it you want. You could put a 340 six pack or 454 rat engine in it if you want, in the same manner that you can with a glider..... the engine must meet the emissions of the year it was made. The emissions requirements on new production vehicles applies to the manufacturers. Not to kit cars, gliders, etc. Check your state regulations on this. I live in Iowa and pulled up the regulations on what I just mentioned and it is valid.

    And no state, including CA, has implemented regulations that remove any pre emission vehicle from the road. You can still drive a 1968 Charger with 440 in it on CA roads. Or an old Edsel if you heart desires. And no requirement for "retrofits" and other nonsense. It would seem that many are just plain scared to death of the government and what they "might" do. But, that's ok. If one feels more comfortable going with an emission laden engine, I have no problem with that. It is the naysaying that goes on about those that choose to take an alternative path that is goofy.

    I am sure glad the founders of this country did not worry about what the government (British) "might" do if those guys declared their independence. Maybe it is time to return to our roots.
     
  8. wichris

    wichris Road Train Member

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    I think you will find that there are quit a few states that have a "fee" for vehicles with older motors installed. Others will only exempt them with vintage/classic registration. And many also charge a fee for those that can't pass emissions. I have no problem with anyone who buy's a glider. Their business. I remember the glider push in the late 70's. Just had to watch for them if you were buying used equipment. I'm certainly not scared of government and what they might do.(well,to a certain extent)

    Myself,i will not limit my company's ability to sell it's services,wherever that may be. Nor will i limit the ability to participate in many shipper programs because my equipment doesn't meet their specs. The more that say no CA,the more i like it.
     
  9. Cat sdp

    Cat sdp . .

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    Want to talk resale? Ask anyone with an 07 emissions truck what it's worth today ! 2 of my local dealers don't even want it at any price . The dreaded cat engine .Glider is the way to go .
     
  10. BigBadBill

    BigBadBill Bullishly Optimistic

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    The point is not excessive depreciation or if you want to go to CA for not. There is a strong likely hood that this will impact rates in markets West of 35. We already see this in reefer rates. And making a business decision on this magnitude with so much uncertainty in terms of rates adds an additional risk. TX, CO, NM, OK and going north could become dead rates for those going East because the market will know a certain percentage will be stuck with those loads. And going West the rates will be inflated. Again, seeing this with reefer in and out of CA.

    So when we compare Reds model of not going into CA, if rates explode because of CARB he has not positioned himself financially that he can't make the decision to capitalize on the change of the market. Add states to his cab card and upgrade reefers.

    But as Cowpie states, a glider is a long-term 7-10 year play. And based on today's market not all that much of a risk. But it is not that crazy to say that we can see a significantly different market in 3-years.
     
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  11. wichris

    wichris Road Train Member

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    Bought 06's early and 09's late. Good trade in on both years. Have a few O/O's with 07's that will agree that they are worth little.
     
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