log book questions

Boy, you are throwing apples, oranges, peaches, pears, and all kinds of stuff together there.

First off, the adverse driving conditions exception pertains to DRIVING TIME ONLY, see 395.1 interpretations question 3. It does not extend the 14 hour rule nor the 60/70 hour limit. You cannot, as you say, "under extreme and very specific criteria extend to 16 to complete the legal drive time to a safe haven."

12 hours is the maximum shift a person may work and claim the 100 air mile exception in 395.1(e).

 

You forgot, or didn't see the pomogranites!

According to your interpretation of the regulation...if a driver has encountered the "adverse driving conditions", and is up against his/her 14 with legal driving time (11) available....then the regulation is moot since we are now considering the 14 and not the 11.

As long as the 2 hour extension of driving time is allowed on the 11, therefore, using plain and simple logic (not allowed in any court of law when any lawyer is present I understand), the extension would carry to the 14 as well. There is no way to separate the two...you have 14 hours to complete your 11 hours driving...to amend that position to say...you have 14 hours to complete your "13" is ludicrous!

This we already established that the short haul (local-100 mile) driver is a maximum 12....but isn't there a "once per week" exception allowing 15? I drove local and was informed by our safety and dispatch about this change...never saw it in print.....now I am asking for clarification.

 

When dealing with Federal Regulations one can never use "plain and simple logic." You just have to go by what they have printed in the regs.

The adverse driving conditions exception pertains to driving time only, "may drive and be permitted or required to drive."

395.1 Interpretations question 3 (issued long ago before the 11/14 hour change) reads:
Question 3: May a driver use the adverse driving conditions exception if he/she has accumulated driving time and on-duty (not driving) time, that would put the driver over 15 hours (now 14 rule) or over 70 hours in 8 consecutive days?
Guidance: No. The adverse driving conditions exception applies only to the 10-hour rule (now 11 rule). (Driving Time)

There is only one thing I know of that "extends" the 14 hour window of duty, that is 8 or more hours in the sleeper as part of a sleeper split. That temporarily stops the 14 hour clock, which continues to run down whatever is left of the 14 when you come out of the sleeper.

 

Let's use US 50 leaving Pueblo, CO west bound for this example. 2 lane, mountain, exceptionally steep grades....

Driver leaves Pueblo, gets up to the "good" section, 9% grade, and comes to an accident involving a fatality, 3 minor injured, and 2 critical. Highway is shut down while EMS does their thing(s), remains shut down for 9 hours. It took our driver 3.5 hours to get to this point...75 miles ahead is a rest area/parking area capable of handling numerous trucks.....since, by your argument, our driver will have exceeded his "14" before reaching the rest area...our driver must now set his brakes for his 10, blocking the highway for other vehicles. On one side there is sheer cliff (up), one the other side is sheer cliff (down)...remember this is 2 lane. Now the road is open, he has been there for 9 hours, but can't claim "sleeper berth" since the local EMS has procured his assistance with patient care...he is a former medic.....

Actual real life example, not contrived or exaggerated....I drove on to the rest area, and took a 10!

You, like so many "desk jockeys" try to use the "letter of the law" to your advantage as if everything was absolute black and white, with no grey in the middle. If a driver is using the 2 hour "emergency extension", just because the regulation is printed with the words "drive time", that in itself does not eliminate the 14 hour "available time" from the scenario. Without being "printed" within the regulation, the "extension" would also apply to the 14, not specifically to the 11, since one is inclusive of the other.

 

Can we have a different scenario please? I want so bad to say, if they weren't being paid to be a medic, then they should have stayed a truck driver and gotten an 8 hour sleeper berth break.

Sorry about that otherhalftw. Don't throw anything at me, you'll just break your screen.

The alternative is, if you're going to lie on a log, then take the sleeper berth option, render aid, then drive to the rest stop and get a real 10. The choice and consequences of legal and moral choices are then up to the principal. Knowing the rules, they know their options...and have to make a decision based on those absolutes, and can't expect quarter when they go out of their way, even if it is for a good cause. They may get them (an officer may escort and overlook the issue) or they may not, that's the choice you have knowing the rules we're governed by.

It hurts, I know, I was an emergency worker (not a medic), and it sucked every time the boss reminded me that I have to do my job and not help someone else, because that was someone else's job at the time. It's a tough and gut-wrenching decision, believe me I know, but it has to be made, knowing full well you're already violating the rules of one profession or the other.

This is one of those times when that Personal Responsibility aspect hurts. We demand it, expect it, and so we can't complain when we are expected to exercise it.

Choose wisely.

And as Scalemaster has pointed out to you, I also understand that 2 hour extension to mean drive time allowing 13 in a 14 hour period but not to go past 14 hours total, and only in adverse driving conditions, not bad scheduling as many driver try to shoehorn it to mean.

 

I can agree to disagree with you on the 14 v 11....but one cannot be removed from the other, they are inclusive. Also, the rules were re-written when the change from 8-10-70 went to 11-14-70, what is quoted from one, is not necessarily inclusive of the latter when rewritten codes are brought forward.

 

You all need to remember one thing!

The company will take the risk when needed...you only have to support 6 months of RODS/HOS records. any sins over 6 months old didn't happen.