Logbook/HOS Frustration

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by robione, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. robione

    robione Bobtail Member

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    Nov 12, 2011
    Williston, ND
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    I just finished reading over §395 in the CFR title 3 chapter 49. (The HOS rules, if I didn't get the numbers right.) I've been driving for about 7 months. The first month almost everyday, but we ran intrastate short hauls so we didn't keep logs. I changed jobs after that month and now occasionally drive a crane used solely for well site purposes. I work under oilfield exemptions. I got my logs back for the last two weeks after being audited by the driver trainer at our shop.

    Quite frankly he's not the sharpest tool in the shed.... And... I'm sure I made some mistakes too, although I honestly tried to learn this to the best of my knowledge before ever stepping foot in a tractor trailer. Hoping with some help I can get to what DOT requires (not company policy). I choose the former over the latter because most of our "policies" don't seem to be written anywhere and they are really only worried about being DOT compliant in case of an audit.


    • I drove 6.5 hours with the first 14 hours I came on but worked over 14. On duty times were 03:30 - 14:30, 15:50 - 24:00. He says, 14-hr rule violation?!? I can't find anywhere in the company policies or §395 of the CFR. He says I cannot work after 14 hours. Everything I have read including company policy say one cannot drive.
    • As far as I can see from §395.8(c) and §395.8(g)(5) the only thing that is typically marked at change of duty is the city and state. I also put in the odometer reading. Apparently this is incorrect? I should be putting in the miles traveled? Quite frankly I think it doesn't matter but I just want to be sure. I'm quite anal about details... but I'll probably just do the minimum to get him out of my hair.
    • I usually use fractions at change of duties at 15 and 45 minutes past the hour and the recap section. Some examples of how these lines would look: 8.5, 6¾, 4¼, 5. I'm being told this is incorrect. Unfortunately I see nothing specified in §395.8(d)(10) and §395.8(f)(11) that says otherwise.
    • I just finished driver training at my company, allowing me to drive the crane I've been driving.... don't ask. So they said nothing extends the 14-hours in the 14-hr rule. I thought the same. My local trainer says otherwise.... and... maybe he is right (off-duty oilfield only). I haven't had to use it yet but what are your thoughts. §395.1(d)(2) second to last sentence.
    • We have several lines for payroll directly underneath our logs. Applicable ones here are "Hrs. Worked," "Other Hrs.," and "Total Hrs." I had heard that DOT can audit payroll as part of the process for determining HOS violations. Now our shift in the field is 12 hours excluding driving time. At most 13¼ if we take advantage of the travel time rule in §395.1(j)(1). At minimum 12¼ hours for close by wells. When we are at the shop we get paid for our lunch but are off duty. Out of district (where we are at any well site) we get paid 14.5 hours. I put something like:
    Hrs. Worked: 12¼
    Other Hours: 2
    ¼
    Total Hours: 14.5

    There are several people at the company that put 14.5 in "Hrs. Worked." My argument here is that we didn't work them. DOT can't say, "Hey! You said your on-duty hours are 12¼ hrs in the log, but you 'worked' 14.5 below. What's the deal?" I guess that could have questions either way. Curious about your opinions.

    • My use of sleeper berth. I read the appropriate dimension required, equipment necessary, etc. in §393.76. But, during my class last week and in §395.1(g)(2) there is mention of "other sleeping accommodation." Can the SB line be used for this or must it be noted as OFF?

    Okay so now I might be illustrating my ignorance in the Recap section. I basically add the current days hours + the previous seven, for a total of eight. The line says, "Total Hours On-Duty Last 7 Days, Incl. Today" Where my trainer and I differ in opinion is whether or not it's the current day + the prev 6 (him) or the prev 7 (me). Since we are running a 8-day/70-hour schedule I've been using 8 days.

    Line B is straight forward. "Total Hours Available Tomorrow. 70 Hrs. Minus Line A" (previous paragraph)

    Line C... confuses me as it seems to be a duplicate of Line B. "Total Hours Available Tomorrow. 70 Hrs. Minus Last 8 Days" This line isn't as confusing if Line A is the previous 6 days and not 7.... But now I'm confused as to why a 70/8 driver is noting the total of 7 days on 'A' and not 8.

    In this example let's forget about the resets. I'm just using numbers for math. So let's say I was on-duty/driving 10 hours a day on the previous seven days and zero today. From what my local person is saying the lines would read as follows: a) 60 b) 10 c) 0. Now how I could have at the same time 10 and 0 hours available to me tomorrow confuses me. The way I've been doing it the lines would read: A) 70 B) 0 C) 0... Tomorrow if I was OFF all day would read (my way): A) 60 B) 10 C) 10.... instead if I worked for 10, it would stay 70/0/0.

    Thanks for your help.
     
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  3. Powder Joints

    Powder Joints Subjective Prognosticator

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    Sep 25, 2007
    Rosamond, SoCal
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    Short Answer is real easy. After 34 off duty, new shift you can drive 11 hours, during a 14 hour period. Once you start working in any way you start the 14 hour clock which only limits driving. You can work 30 hours, You just cannot drive again till you have 10 hours off duty or sleeper berth. And you can combine 2 hour off duty with 8 hours sleeper to get you 10 off duty.

    Keep it simple, by the way the vast majority of people over complicate hours of service.

    Also in a 8 day period you can only log 70 hours and after that you also can not drive either.
     
  4. pokerhound67

    pokerhound67 Heavy Load Member

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    Oct 30, 2012
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    well, i CAN tell you that in the 1st instance you are right...dot says you cannot drive after your 14 hour clock is done (or after 11 hours of driving, whichever comes first). but nothing in dot regs prevents you from WORKING all the hours you want. on duty not driving can extend well past the 14 hour limit, keeping in mind that all that time is also coming off of your 70 as well. you have to take a 10 hour break before you are eligible to begin driving again, of course. but your "on duty not driving line" can stretch out as long as is needed with no violation. 24hours, 48 hours, more? no violation. this does not affect many drivers because most of us are driving almost exclusively...on duty time consists mostly of pre/post trip and fueling.
     
  5. EZX1100

    EZX1100 Road Train Member

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    Aug 18, 2012
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    you know, after reading thru this thread, and knowing the "old" rules, it makes me wonder how much more complicated DOT is going to make our lives with these "new" rules coming out

    driving a truck should not be that difficult, lets not forget, we are unskilled labor, any monkey can do what we do...........or so they treat us
     
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  6. Xcis

    Xcis Medium Load Member

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    Jul 9, 2008
    Bridgeport, Pa
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    Here is the government website address that may be of assistance to anyone concerning the HOS regs
    www Fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/topics/Hos/index.html this gets you to the Summary of Hours-of-Service (HOS) Regulations
    .
    .From that point you can check out the Questions & Answers section and download Logbook Examples (pdf)
    Logbook examples are at www.Fmcsa.Dot.Gov/documents/Hos/Logbook.pdf
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2012
  7. Dinomite

    Dinomite Road Train Member

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    Sep 6, 2012
    Looking 4 Rocks
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    E logs make everything simple :)
     
  8. Cowmobile

    Cowmobile Medium Load Member

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    May 9, 2011
    The hammer lane....
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    Yes! E logs make the dumb and lazy even more dumb and lazy, that's the answer for everything! Moron.
     
  9. EZX1100

    EZX1100 Road Train Member

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    volvodriver01 Thanks this.
  10. West coast trucker

    West coast trucker Bobtail Member

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    Oct 12, 2012
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    You kinda almost got it right.

    You cant do a 2 and 8 split if you worked all the 14 at one time ie; Drive 5 hours+3 hours on duty+6 hours driving then do a 8 in the sleeper then back to driving, that wont work. Now if you drove for 5 hours then 3 on duty THEN took 8 in the sleeper then you can drive 6 more hours and do a 2 hour off duty then drive for 5 hours before having to either do an 8 in the sleeper or 10 hour break.

    As for the rest of your post its spot on. You can work line 4 for 90 hours and not be in HOS violation but you would have to take a 34 hour reset before driving.
     
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