Full load, grades, no engine brake

I spent a lot of years going up and down Cajon, Cabbage, Vail, etc in trucks that had no jake and 46,000 in the box. Just slow way down to low range, throw on the 4-ways, have a thermos of coffee and a sandwich, and take you sweet time to the bottom. Hardly ever smoked a brake.

 

Uh no! Oxygen between the drum is irrelevant. If enough heat is generated surrounding the components,and said components reach flash point ..guess what mass is converted to energy and energy to mass. If you descend a hill in the proper gear you are doing the brakes a favor. When you slow to a certain speed and apply the brakes ,the vehicle slows down ,when you release the vehicle speed increases in other words ,if you slow down then speed up you just lost what you had to begin with ,and you are technically braking twice ,or increasing the workload of the brake shoes to more of a two to one ration. Think of it this way. If you slow an 80,000 pound vehicle down ,and then allow it to speed back up ,and then slow it down again the brakes have performed a "work load" twice ,or equivalent to slowing 100.000 plus pounds.

 

sorry, with the advent of the Smith System and its "rock in the stream", i dont have much faith in "whats taught" because it reeks of insurance company bias

i am unbiased in this downhill thing, if it worked for years, and they started a different method, maybe the new method is better, but at least one should know both methods

 

I'm usually the skeptic with similar things too, however, one must take into consideration the reduction of accidents and fatalities involving commercial motor vehicles over the past years even with the increased number of cmvs, drivers and other vehicles crowding the roadways. I chalk this up to safer vehicles and the advent of advanced technology found on vehicles, such as referred to in post #103 as relates to the brakes. As technology changes driving technique must also change so as to adapt to the new technology.

As far as the Smith System, I believe it makes for a safer driver. Insurance companies DO play a large role and in no way, as a business, are they going to allow themselves to lose money. They often provide insurance breaks and reductions for those certified in the Smith System because it works and reduces accidents/claims. The data doesn't lie.

 

there is no way the "rock in the stream" is nothing other than a driving hazard. causing everyone to go around you is self-centered and selfish

it only saves the driver from rear end collisions

 

You've pretty much nailed it with the insurance theory,and if there ten different methods it is to one's advantage to know all of them. The object of the game is to stay out of the hospital and cemetery.

 

My company just provided the Smith System for its drivers not even a month ago by a certified Smith System representative and safety manager for a national petro-hauling fleet. The term "rock in a stream" phrase wasn't mentioned a single time, not once.

 

i was taught it years ago

i am not the only one

 

Yep that will do it.

 

Since this is the New Drivers section of the forum, I will try one last time to explain this stuff. If you have not as yet passed the written permit test, the written test questions are all based on the current Commercial Driver's Manual.
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.Quoting from the Commercial Driver's Manual for the following:
.From the Air Brakes section, sub-section Using Air Brakes topic Brake Fading or Failure; "Excessive use of the service brakes result in overheating and leads to brake fade. Brake fade results from excessive heat causing chemical changes in the brake lining which reduce friction and also cause expansion to the brake drums. As the over heated drums expand, the brake shoes and linings have to move farther to contact the drums, and the force of this contact is also reduced. continued overuse may increase brake fade until the vehicle cannot be slowed down or stopped at all."
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.Section 2, sub-section Mountain Driving, the underlined bold faced capital letter topics outline the 3 steps to safely negotiate a steep mountain grade. "SELECT A 'SAFE' SPEED...If a speed limit is posted, or there is a sign indicating 'Maximum Safe Speed', never exceed the speed shown. Also, look for and heed warning signs indicating the length and steepness of the grade. You must use the braking effect of the engine as the principal way of controlling your speed. The braking effect of the engine is greatest when it is near the governed RPMs and the transmission is in the lower gear. Save your brakes so you will be able to slow or stop as required by road and traffic conditions.
.BE IN THE RIGHT GEAR BEFORE STARTING DOWN THE GRADE Shift the transmission to a low gear before starting down the grade. Do not try to downshift after your speed has already built up. You will not be able to shift into a lower gear. You may not even be able to get back into any gear and all engine braking effect will be lost....
.SNUB BRAKING TECHNIQUE
. REMEMBER: The use of brakes on a long and/or steep downgrade is only a supplement to the braking effect of the engine. Once the vehicle is in the proper low gear, the following describes snub braking, which is the proper braking technique for long and/or steep downgrades:
.1. Apply the brakes just hard enough to feel a definite slowdown.
.2 When your speed has been reduced to approximately 5 mph below your 'safe' speed, release the brakes(this brake application should last for about three(3) seconds).

3. When your speed has increased to your 'safe'speed, repeat steps 1 and 2."
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.The above is what you need to correctly answer the written test questions inorder to get your CDL permit. Currently, the only accepted braking method to use on steep mountain grades is snub braking. Snub braking or the definition of snub brakind is the correct answer on the written test. Light steady pressure is a wrong answer. Light steady pressure does infact work but for testing purposes it is a wrong answer because that is the old, out-of-date technique. Any emergency stopping technique is also a wrong ie the stab braking method which involves locking up the brakes and the controlled braking method which does not lock the brakes. Like wise fanning and pumping the brakes are also wrong answers.
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.If you do not have a Commercial Driver's Manual, you can do a google search for "Commercial Driver's Manual" and download one for free. If you only want the Air Brakes section or just the Mountain Driving topic (2 pages long) in section 2, you could search for 'Commercial Driver's Manual Pennsylvania".
Most states have the CDL manual as a pdf file but good old Pennsylvania has the manual as text that you can cut and past into Microsoft Word or any other word processor so you can save or print only the part that you want.
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.To the guys who were taught light steady pressure, I fully understand that light steady pressure does work. Yes, I get it. If you have been trained that way and have experience with it --- Fine.
.I see a problem if you have not been trained in that method and you do not have a gauge that shows how much air pressure you are actually applying to the brakes. Without that gauge, I can see how easily a rookie can get into big, big trouble. Personally, I do not want to discuss the old methods in the New Drivers forum because I do not want to confuse the people who come here that have not as yet passed the written test to obtain their CDL permits. When in doubt, read the Commercial Driver's Manual. They will not steer you wrong.
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.Okay, I am so done with this topic. I am so tired that I really need a vacation. No hard feelings folks. Drive safely; I am outta here.