Glider Kit CAT OR Detroit

Parts on the CAT may be a little higher true. If you buy less parts over time that spells cheaper. Factory rebuild or not it could go either way on both. I'm not bashing the 60 series they are good engines without doubt. They are lighter for sure, and seems that there are more mechanics, drivers, that are familiar with the Detroit. What I think it comes down to is your preference and what best fits your current driving style. Our habits are hardest to change. I would take a CAT over the Detroit but that is what I have always driven.

 

I am a fan of the detroits I have a 2000 60series. Kepp rpms up more then a cat and don't lug it and it runs just fine. They are cheaper to work on then a cat.

 

I'll chime in for the Detroit 60 also. I put a 500 12.7 Series 60 in my glider and have had no regrets that I did so. It is a far easier engine to work on, get parts for, and overall lower operating costs. Detroit is taking their factory engine rebuilds very seriously and are putting out some great rebuilds. Not that Cat offers slop, they have great engines also. But they also are more expensive to keep up and running. They are really proud of their parts and are going to let you know it when you open your wallet. Whereas, Detroit parts and third party parts are available everywhere at lower prices, primarily because the Series 60 is just about the most common engine ever built and put into trucks. Sure, it was because a lot of fleets spec'd Detroits, but that is one of the few things that those fleets did that helps us out now. Plenty of parts, easy to work on, and lower cost. The lighter weight is always a plus. By using Aluminum housing drive axles, wide based rubber, and a 12.7 pre-egr Series 60 in my glider hooked up to an 18 speed, I can haul well over 2000 lb more than any of the company trucks at my carrier. I have yet to actually bump 80,000 lb gross in the 15 months I have had the truck even with putting over 46,000 lb in the dry box. Weight of truck full of fuel and everything else I carry on board and 53' Stoughton dry box plate trailer with the aero skirts is only about 32,000 lb.

 

Another thing about Detroits I had a buddy that worked at a Detroit for awhile he rebuilt on with just a impact didn't torque anything and at 550k it was still running

 

I've had experience with both those engines, I owned a 2000 S60 500 hp, and after I started hauling cars ran the last of 3406E's @550 hp. Performance wise there is no comparison. That Cat was rated @ 550hp @1800 rpm, but peak power was almost 600 hp @ 1600 rpm; plus the Cat has 200 ft-lbs more torque. The Detroit make 500 hp @ 1800 rpm, and only just over 400 hp @ 1600 rpm. That's over a 150 hp difference right were you usually use it, The Cat makes more power over a 500 rpm spread than the Detroit makes at peak.

It's hard to describe just how different that really is! The Cat would cross Elk Mountain without a split if I hit the bottom @ 75mph, you're not doing that in a Detroit. We had a sister truck that was identical except it was still a 475 hp, pulling Baker NB I would be 3 miles ahead by the top and I'd be 3000 lbs heavier. I got out of the Cat and bought a '06 S60 @ 515 hp and thought I'd been relegated to a 220 Cummins. Yeah, it did ok if you kept the revs up, but fuel mileage went to crap when you did. So Cat wins performance, no contest.

That said, the Detroits tend to be easier on fuel, and are dang sure easier to work on and the parts are cheaper and more readily available. Even simple stuff like belts, alternator, etc, was far easier to do. It kind of depends on duty cycle as to which way I'd go, if I was building a carhauler or a heavy-haul tractor, the Cat is a no brainer, especially out West. Hauling a freight box around I'd probably take the Detroit for the lighter weight and better fuel mileage.

 

You can't compare 1400 romp in a detroit vs 1400 in a cat. you need to compare 1400 in a cat to 1600 in a Detroit. We have all said you need to runt he Detroit at higher rpm which can be done by just changing the rear end spec. According to you the 550 cat put out 600@ 1600 rpm. Show me an engine chart that says that.

Comparing a 490hp Detroit to a 500 hp cat:

Detroit s60:
490 HP @ 1800 RPM 1650FT-LB @ 1200 RPM
http://internal.fdda.com/uploads/products/brochures/4.pdf

Cat:
500 HP @ a roaring 2100 rpm 1650FT-LB @ unknown rpm, certainly not peak hp though.
http://www.dwclutch.com/D&W/D&W Clutch & Brake 2/CAT TORQUE.pdf

So Same torque, and you actually need tons more RPM to get the same HP out of cat. We were always told don't run your cat over 1400 to save on fuel. Turns out need need a whopping 2100 to reach peak


Now yes, Cat does make bigger motors, but i don't see anything about a STOCK cat doing better then it's rating. Both can be pushed much higher then their rating but the idea that a stock 550 would push 600 is probably not true. Both can do that with little modification to their computer. So yea, if you need the absolute most HP the cat stock can be bought in 550 and 600 hp versions, but for the same Hp, you will need higher rpms and tons more fuel. Unless your doing heavy haul....the detroit is just a good as a cat. if your planning on buying 515 hp or less they will both have good performance.

Now we all thought u need mroe rpm for the detroit, but according to the specs the cat isn't at peak at only 1400.

 

Ok, so vote for Detroit. But you gotta quit posting of things you know nothing about.

 

Sadly, finding a power curve for an engine that was released 10 years before you started driving isn't an easy task. The best I've found so far is this pic which plainly shows a hump in the power curve, i.e. the engine makes more power in the midrange than at rated power. This was a common feature of Cat engines in the time frame the OP was speaking of using.

Learn that rated power is not necessarily max power!

I had a decent amount of rebuttal typed here, but I realized it would be the equivalent of banging my head on the wall. If you really think you need more rpm out of Cat to make more power compared to a Detroit, there's no helping you! Especially when you argue the opposite point just below that!

Do you know a sure sign that you're a professional, in any field? It's recognizing how much you DON'T know!

 

I didn't know for sure which is why I looked up. True sign a professional is find the answer when you don't know. I thought less rpm on a cat is better, but according to documentation my original post was wrong. Probably it makes almost max at 1400 but gives a tiny more at 2100, but torque would be way down. 1400 is prob the best torque HP combo, although i dont have a chart for it like i do on the detroit. Yes some engines out preform their rateing, but not all of them. Its just as likely a Detroit would out preform as much as a cat might.

That being said, I have driven both a cat and a Detroit, so I am posting on something I know a bit about. I also know my c15 didn't pull nearly as well as my s60 does now. Now yea, I'm not comparing exact matches in HP when I drove them. But, spec wise, they have similar max torque at 500 hp. So, unless your buying a huge engion, if under 500 horse the specs don't show a major difference aside for rpm.

 

Because iv only been driving 2 years I know nothing about it? I can read spec sheets and have driven both.