Logbook and HOS

Trucker Bug · Mar 7, 2014

I just started at a new company and some things are just not adding up. While I do not drive class A daily we do drive ford f550's every day. Everyone from our DOT compliance guy to all the class A drivers are saying I'm incorrect but I whole heatedly believe I'm not.

First this company has both commercial and non commercial drivers. The class A drivers on occasion will haul our equipment on flatbed to the jobsites. The other times were driving the f550's.

The 550's all have dot numbers, 35lb weight stickers, bit inspections and dot inspection stickers which makes me say that they are classified as commercial vehicles.

While this company does not haul freight they do travel interstate to do jobs and again make me consider them as "commercial vehicles".

I have not checked the gvw but I'm sure it's over 10001 lbs and therefore again should be a commercial vehicle.

Everyone cdl or not is required to log however the company and everyone is saying that you do not need to log the drive time in the 550's. Im saying that you do need to log. And you also must follow the hos

They work lots of hours 7 days a week, no 34hr resets and still are saying its ok to drive the 550's when they're past their 70.

Im beating my head against the wall trying to explain why their incorrect but I'm the odd man out. Am I losing my mind or am I right? When there's seriously over 20 people telling me I'm wrong I'm starting to second guess myself

12 ga · Mar 7, 2014

You are correct, logging is required, as is hours of requirements. May need to speak to a motor carrier officer.

biggare1980 · Mar 7, 2014

Are the 550's registered for a combined weight over 26k?

STexan · Mar 7, 2014

Are they crossing state lines? What is their typical radius of operation? Back home (terminal) every night?

dannythetrucker · Mar 7, 2014

there is a non-CDL shorthaul exemption as follows

Non-CDL Short-Haul
You are not required to fill out a log with a graph grid if you come under the non-CDL short-haul exception. The non-CDL short-haul exception applies on days when you:

Drive a truck that does not require a CDL, and

Work within a 150 air-mile radius (see p. 2 for explanation of air miles) of your normal work reporting location and return there each day.
Your motor carrier must keep time records of the times you report for and are released from work each day, and the total hours on duty each day.
This regulation is found in Section 395.1(e)(2).

12 ga · Mar 7, 2014

STexan said: ↑

Are they crossing state lines? What is their typical radius of operation? Back home (terminal) every night?
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Crossing state lines has nothing to do with anything.

OPPS we were trypng at the same time.

Don't forget about the 12 hours limitation.

Grumppy · Mar 7, 2014

I also agree that you need to fill out a log in your situation. If you are a CDL operator, you have to log all on duty or working time. For example, we had a driver working for us at one time who drove a wrecker part time for another company. My understanding was that he had to log his wrecker duty status to be compliant with his job duty status on our job.

You are also required to have the previous 8 days logs filled out "in possession" to show work status. So, if you drive an 18 wheeler on Monday but drive a one ton the next 4 days, you still have to log to show current status for the previous 8 days. Even if its on duty not driving.
Its the same principal as driving on Monday but doing yard labor the other four days.... you still have to show duty status even if its on duty not driving.... because you have to show the previous 8 days duty status next Monday when you get back in a big truck.

In the end, whether you are legally bound to log while driving a straight truck/flatbed under 10,001 lb that does not require logging on its own, you are still bound by the rules covered under your regulations governing vehicles over 10,001 lb.

Trucker Bug · Mar 7, 2014

The f550's are registered for 35k

They tried citing the shorthaul exemption however even under short haul you're bound by the 14/16hr and 70 hr a week driving rule

Also since we do interstate jobs were not reporting to the same terminal every day. They might do it for a couple weeks at a time but some jobs require layovers as they might take a few days to complete onsite.

CondoCruiser · Mar 7, 2014

Some of the rules pertaining to you.

§ 383.5
Definitions.

Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle

(1) Has a gross combination weight rating or gross combination weight of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater, inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds), whichever is greater; or
(2) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross vehicle weight of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more), whichever is greater; or
(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(4) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.
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§ 383.91
Commercial motor vehicle groups.
(a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:
(1) Combination vehicle (Group A)Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).
(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.
(3) Small Vehicle (Group C)Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the hazardous materials as defined in § 383.5.
(b) Representative vehicle. For purposes of taking the driving test in accordance with §383.113, a representative vehicle for a given vehicle group contained in §383.91(a), is any commercial motor vehicle which meets the definition of that vehicle group.
(c) Relation between vehicle groups. Each driver applicant who desires to operate in a different commercial motor vehicle group from the one which his/her CDL authorizes shall be required to retake and pass all related tests, except the following:
(1) A driver who has passed the knowledge and skills tests for a combination vehicle (Group A) may operate a heavy straight vehicle (Group B) or a small vehicle (Group C), provided that he/she possesses the requisite endorsement(s); and
(2) A driver who has passed the knowledge and skills tests for a heavy straight vehicle (Group B) may operate any small vehicle (Group C), provided that he/she possesses the requisite endorsement(s).
(d) Vehicle group illustration. Figure 1 illustrates typical vehicles within each of the vehicle groups defined in this section.

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§ 395.1
Scope of rules in this part.
(a) General. (1) The rules in this part apply to all motor carriers and drivers, except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (r) of this section. (Exempt)

(e) Short-haul operations(1) 100 air-mile radius driver. A driver is exempt from the requirements of § 395.8 if:
(i) The driver operates within a 100 air-mile radius of the normal work reporting location;
(ii) The driver, except a driver-salesperson, returns to the work reporting location and is released from work within 12 consecutive hours;
(iii)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 10 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty;
(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver has at least 8 consecutive hours off duty separating each 12 hours on duty;
(iv)(A) A property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed the maximum driving time specified in §395.3(a)(3) following 10 consecutive hours off duty; or
(B) A passenger-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver does not exceed 10 hours maximum driving time following 8 consecutive hours off duty; and
(v) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing:
(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day;
(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day;
(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day; and
(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with §395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently.

(2) Operators of property-carrying commercial motor vehicles not requiring a commercial driver's license.

Except as provided in this paragraph, a driver is exempt from the requirements of §395.3(a)(2) and §395.8 and ineligible to use the provisions of §395.1(e)(1), (g), and (o) if:
(i) The driver operates a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle for which a commercial driver's license is not required under part 383 of this subchapter;
(ii) The driver operates within a 150 air-mile radius of the location where the driver reports to and is released from work, i.e., the normal work reporting location;
(iii) The driver returns to the normal work reporting location at the end of each duty tour;
(iv) The driver does not drive:
(A) After the 14th hour after coming on duty on 5 days of any period of 7 consecutive days; and
(B) After the 16th hour after coming on duty on 2 days of any period of 7 consecutive days;
(v) The motor carrier that employs the driver maintains and retains for a period of 6 months accurate and true time records showing:
(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day;
(B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day;
(C) The time the driver is released from duty each day;
(D) The total time for the preceding 7 days in accordance with § 395.8(j)(2) for drivers used for the first time or intermittently.
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§ 395.3

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Maximum driving time for property-carrying vehicles.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in §395.1, no motor carrier shall permit or require any driver used by it to drive a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle, nor shall any such driver drive a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle, regardless of the number of motor carriers using the driver's services, unless the driver complies with the following requirements:
(1) Start of work shift. A driver may not drive without first taking 10 consecutive hours off duty;
(2) 14-hour period. A driver may drive only during a period of 14 consecutive hours after coming on duty following 10 consecutive hours off duty. The driver may not drive after the end of the 14-consecutive-hour period without first taking 10 consecutive hours off duty.
(3) Driving time and rest breaks. (i) Driving time. A driver may drive a total of 11 hours during the 14-hour period specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this section.
(ii) Rest breaks. Except for drivers who qualify for either of the short-haul exceptions in § 395.1(e)(1) or (2), driving is not permitted if more than 8 hours have passed since the end of the drivers last off-duty or sleeper-berth period of at least 30 minutes.
(b) No motor carrier shall permit or require a driver of a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle to drive, nor shall any driver drive a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle, regardless of the number of motor carriers using the driver's services, for any period after
(1) Having been on duty 60 hours in any period of 7 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier does not operate commercial motor vehicles every day of the week; or
(2) Having been on duty 70 hours in any period of 8 consecutive days if the employing motor carrier operates commercial motor vehicles every day of the week.
(c)(1) Any period of 7 consecutive days may end with the beginning of an off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours that includes two periods from 1:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m.
(2) Any period of 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of an off-duty period of 34 or more onsecutive hours that includes two periods from 1:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m.
(d) A driver may not take an off-duty period allowed by paragraph (c) of this section to restart the calculation of 60 hours in 7 consecutive days or 70 hours in 8 consecutive days until 168 or more consecutive hours have passed since the beginning of the last such off-duty period. When a driver takes more than one off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours within a period of 168 consecutive hours, he or she must indicate in the Remarks section of the record of duty status which such off-duty period is being used to restart the calculation of 60 hours in 7 consecutive days or 70 hours in 8 consecutive days.
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Hours of service of drivers
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§ 395.8Driver's record of duty status.

(a) Except for a private motor carrier of passengers (nonbusiness), every motor carrier shall require every driver used by the motor carrier to record his/her duty status for each 24 hour period using the methods prescribed in either paragraph (a)(1) or (2) of this section.

(1) Every driver who operates a commercial motor vehicle shall record his/her duty status, in duplicate, for each 24-hour period. The duty status time shall be recorded on a specified grid, as shown in paragraph (g) of this section. The grid and the requirements of paragraph (d) of this section may be combined with any company forms.

continued... http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=395.8
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All rules and regulations

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrguide.aspx?section_type=A

Trucker Bug · Mar 7, 2014

Thanks all. I have most of the info printed up, even got the DMV book as a reference. I'm trying to put it all together for the dot compliance guy to prove my case. In the end if it comes down to it I'll either run the way I'm supposed to or quit if they have a problem with it.

I just couldnt believe I knew this and no one else did. Even the super truckers who boast about their 20+ years of driving compared to my 4. It's like a conspiracy or something. I just wanted to clarify before I made a stink about it. As I really was starting to think I was wrong while everything I read says I'm right

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