Logging off duty when in sleeper. Yes or no?

If you take it to court it will get thrown out, This guy was just lookin to bust your chops.

 

Im not sure why repairing computers for a living would make you an expert on what was available online. I had a Motorola Radio Shop in the early 90's but that has little to do with anything here except radio stuff. My Dad had a trucking company and we were subscribed to the Federal Registery / Land Transportation Division, one of the perks was the abilbity to look up transportation law online.

The Federal Register Subscription Service was available back in the 90's. even back as far as 28.8 connections. It was a very slow process but certainly was there.

Maybe primitive by todays standards but certainly there. I believe I had to use a subscription service back then. I still have the old computers if you want one. But that does not prove what I lloked up on my Toshiba Satelite 1450 with a card modem, hot stuff then.

 

Its not the fact that I repaired computers back then. Its the fact that at that time I was a person with above average web skills and I was also learning to drive back then. So I was online at that time searching for the regs so I could study them and they weren't available. Had to buy the little green book instead.

Before I drove for a living, I flew for a living. At that time, I could find the FAA regs online, but only because I was a member for a of pilots association and they kept copies on their website for members. Non-members couldn't find the federal regs online back then. Now a days every federal reg and most state laws are available to the public online. But 10 years ago, that wasn't the case.

And being a person who has worked in tech, I know that when government agency makes previously unavailable portions of their data available to the public, they don't simply copy the files from a non-public folder to a public one and let it be. When they make new things available, they build new sites from the ground up. So the odds that a page on their regulations simply got 'forgotten' and was therefore not updated in the last 10 years is pretty darn unlikely.

Like I said before, you guys are wrong on this one. I can do this all night. Let it go.

 

If the question is whether or not the interpretation in Part 395.1 Question 26 is outdated and no longer valid- The answer is that it is still there in the latest version of the regs and IS valid.

Question 26: May a driver record sleeper berth time as off-duty time on line one of the record of duty status?
Guidance: No. The driver’s record of duty status must accurately reflect the driver’s activities.

This is the guidance that I am required to follow while doing inspections. I have noted violations of this rule in the past and will do so in the future. I can't make up my own rules and this one is pretty simple.

I have seen MANY drivers log off-duty and sleeper incorrectly and hurt themselves. I can't tell you how many drivers I have inspected that have logged 9 1/2 hr off duty periods and I have had to place them OOS for being over their hours.

The best and easiest thing to do is log what you do. I've seen many drivers make up stuff and get confused on the details and end up sitting it out for 10 hrs OOS. Telling the truth is easy. Cheating can be hard to do and cover your tracks completely.

 

ok, heres the question. lets say the guy logs 10 hours off duty. he is legal , correct?

if you ask him were you in the sleeper berth any of that time? he says no, he is still legal.

if you ask him were you in the sleeper any of that time and he says yes, then he is illegal, yes?

the only way you got him illegal is if he tells you he was in sleeper and has logged it all off duty, right

what way would you have to prove the difference between sleeper berth and off duty?

that is in essence the real question of this thread, I do think.

if someone stayed awake his entire 10 hour off duty, would that be legal as long as it was all off duty? it would be a stupid but technically legal I would think.

I think you next to last sentence says it all, "get confused on the details and end up sitting it out for 10 hours". without that confusion , theres really no way to differ between the two lines on the book, is there.

 

OK! I think we are starting to agree on this question, my posting on this is being legal or not, my response are if you tell the truth to the officer? Logged off duty, where you in the sleeper, yes, oops! That's falsification, same question, answer cough cough, no officer, I have a friend, or at motel, or what ever, officer, ok have a nice day,

 

In other words lie.

 

ok, heres the question.lets say the guy logs 10 hours off duty. he is legal , correct?

It depends upon if he DID what he Logged.

if you ask him were you in the sleeper berth any of that time? he says no, heis still legal.

Then he would be in violation per the federalInterpretation. It would be a false log / generally not OOS.

if you ask him were you in the sleeper any of that time and he says yes, thenhe is illegal, yes?

There are provisions in the regs that address leaving the sleeper forshort periods of time that would logically apply to going into the sleeper forshort periods of time.

the only way you got him illegal is if he tells you he was in sleeper and haslogged it all off duty, right

He is in violation when he logs sleeper berth while off-duty. Obviously I won't put down the violation if I don't know about it. I often findout about it when they log something that hurts them. Say they log 9 hrs ofoff-duty and they tell me it was actually sleeper. If I don't find outabout it, I don't worry about it. It's not a big deal either way. But if I do find out a violation has occurred, I put it down.

what way would you have to prove the difference between sleeper berth and offduty?

Not sure what you're asking. If a driver tells me he logged onething and did another, I take his admission as "proof" a violationhas occurred.

that is in essence the real question of this thread, I do think.

if someone stayed awake his entire 10 hour off duty, would that be legal aslong as it was all off duty? it would be a stupid but technically legal I wouldthink.

It does not matter if one is "awake" or asleep. All thatmatters is where he is physically. If he is inside of a sleeper berth asdefined by 392.2 he should log sleeper berth.

I think you next to last sentence says it all, "get confused on thedetails and end up sitting it out for 10 hours". without that confusion ,theres really no way to differ between the two lines on the book, is there.

Sorry - again I'm not sure what you're saying. If you are in a sleeperberth that conforms to 392.2, you log sleeper. If you are at home, etc,log off-duty. You can log part sleeper and part off-duty if that's whatyou did and get your 10 hr break if it is consecutive.

I see a lot of drivers throwing in a 15 minute on-duty period in the middle oftheir 10 hr break that gets them in trouble because their 10 hr period is nolonger consecutive and may mean that they have to get lay down for another 10hrs to reset their hrs.

Again - If you are in the sleeper log sleeper. If you are at home, log off-duty. I guess I'm not seeing why this is such a hard concept to understand?

 

No ones claiming that it's a justifiable reg, yes it's total BS, but with the new CSA, and PSP, just best to play along, and keep your CDL clear