i want to be on the road!!!

Happy fella aren't you?

I'm not wasting my time googling everything but the real estate broker law is real and yes, brokers have been convicted and had to pay.... not to mention losing their license........ it is a very real issue and a good deal of any Real Estate Law course (at any University) is going to spend a good deal of the time detailing this code.

As for asking them if they are illiterate....... I'm not sure if you are going to like this but it is required by law that they do just that....... all schools MUST prove each student has the "ability to benefit" and the student must prove this by providing a high school diploma or passing a test...... sorry to be the bearer of bad news........

Actually, I am usually the one who gets slammed by posters for being "negative" and "anti-newbie"....... so it's nice to see someone else out there being even less supportive than I am.......

 

Happy fella aren't you?
shickled #######!!

I'm not wasting my time googling everything but the real estate broker law is real and yes, brokers have been convicted and had to pay.... not to mention losing their license........ it is a very real issue and a good deal of any Real Estate Law course (at any University) is going to spend a good deal of the time detailing this code.

yes, I believe it is illegal to commit a crime. making money is NOT a crime last time I checked. but this is a trucker forum, you're in the wrong place if you want to discuss real estate.

As for asking them if they are illiterate....... I'm not sure if you are going to like this but it is required by law that they do just that....... all schools MUST prove each student has the "ability to benefit" and the student must prove this by providing a high school diploma or passing a test...... sorry to be the bearer of bad news........

now you're going to start spewing nonsense about nonexistent "laws."

Actually, I am usually the one who gets slammed by posters for being "negative" and "anti-newbie"....... so it's nice to see someone else out there being even less supportive than I am.......

I have NO interest in "supporting" some whiny little ###### who wants to blame his pathetic problems on others. maybe one day he'll figure out what he wants to do when he grows up.

 

Storyteller, I think I'm going to (basically) agree with chief here. Unless the school is run by a carrier and they promise a job and then don't deliver it - the school is under no true compunction to turn the new student away.

I don't know exactly what they said - but I'd be willing to bet it was along the lines of "sure, you can get a job with our CDL". I'd be amazed (but not unbelieving) if they said "sure, it'll be easy to get a job after you graduate"

There are all KINDS of CDL A jobs out there. Perseverance is the key to getting ANY job. 500 job rejections mean nothing when compared to one acceptance. It took me about 50 applications before I got an acceptance - and my driving record is nearly clean.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that the OP has not applied to all of the larger companies who hire newbies. I'll double that bet and suggest that he's not applied to all of the local companies in his area. No matter how bad your driving record is, SOMEBODY will hire you. The problem is, it won't be a good company. This person danced the dance, now has to pay the band.

An independent school would not, in the eyes of the law - or anybody with any sense - be an expert in job placement. At best, they'll offer an assist. Their area of expertise is in helping the student obtain his CDL. After that, it's secondary services.

I don't thing the OP has a leg to stand on as far as a lawsuit, unless they actually promised him a job after graduation.

 

I am sorry this is so upsetting to some people...... I have always been under the impression that certain people have a greater responsibility than others depending on their profession and/or position in society...... obviously that is one of my personal beliefs that everyone does not share.... oh well, to each his own.....
With that being said, Superior Knowledge is a legal concept.
Sometime it IS a crime to make money...... it depends on how you make it.

The kids lawyer is probably using some of these legal concepts (note that superior knowledge is a term used within)

fiduciary relationship
n. where one person places complete confidence in another in regard to a particular transaction or one's general affairs or business. The relationship is not necessarily formally or legally established as in a declaration of trust, but can be one of moral or personal responsibility, due to the superior knowledge and training of the fiduciary as compared to the one whose affairs the fiduciary is handling.

fiduciary
1) n. from the Latin fiducia, meaning "trust," a person (or a business like a bank or stock brokerage) who has the power and obligation to act for another (often called the beneficiary) under circumstances which require total trust, good faith and honesty. The most common is a trustee of a trust, but fiduciaries can include business advisers, attorneys, guardians, administrators of estates, real estate agents, bankers, stockbrokers, title companies or anyone who undertakes to assist someone who places complete confidence and trust in that person or company. Characteristically, the fiduciary has superior knowledge and expertise about the matters being handled. A fiduciary is held to a standard of conduct and trust above that of a stranger or of a casual business person. He/she/it must avoid "self-dealing" or "conflicts of interests" in which the potential benefit to the fiduciary is in conflict with what is best for the person who trusts him/her/it. For example, a stockbroker must consider the best investment for the client and not buy or sell on the basis of what brings him/her the highest commission. While a fiduciary and the beneficiary may join together in a business venture or a purchase of property, the best interest of the beneficiary must be primary, and absolute candor is required of the fiduciary. 2) adj. defining a situation or relationship in which a person is acting as a fiduciary for another.

confidential relation
n. a relationship in which one person has confidence in and relies on another because of some combination of a history of trust, older age, family connection and/or superior knowledge and training , to a point where the party relied upon dominates the situation, for good or bad. While it may include attorney and client, stockbroker and customer, real estate agent and buyer, a senior family member and an unsophisticated relative, the relationship is defined on a case-by-case basis, with reliance and dominance the key factors. In this situation, the trusting party does not have to be as vigilant or suspicious as with strangers or people who are not relied upon. The time clock (statute of limitations) to bring a lawsuit against a crook who is in a confidential relationship may not start to run until the misdeeds become extremely obvious.

 

My mistake, I may not have explained the "Ability to Benefit" requirement as thoroughly as I should have. It is not actually a "law" as in everyone in the county has to follow it ......... you are correct ........ however, it is part of Title IV Federal Student Aid "Law"............. which means that ANY institution that wants to accept student financial aid funds (including WIA) MUST obey and document proof that this "law" has been followed and enforced.............. is that better?

Now........ I would like to find ANY truck school that does not accept any kind of financial aid what-so-ever......... I don't think that is possible...
Thus, if logic follows, all truck schools accept financial aid........ and therefore, all truck schools must document that a student has the "Ability to Benefit."

I went to Google and typed in "truck schools ability to benefit" and copied the first 5 that were on the screen...... Sage happened to be one of them..... you can see below that they ALL state that they enforce the clause/law......... I know my school did...... (they required I order a copy of my high school transcript - my university one would not even "satisfy" their requirements )...... there is a reason behind this requirement but I'm sure most people can figure out what it is.......

I apologize if I was not completely accurate or clear in my original post. I hope this clarifies what I was TRYING to say.............


SAGE Truck Driving School
Requirements
All applicants are required to complete an Enrollment Application, provide a copy of a valid driver's license and a copy of a physical examination on a DOT form (available at the School).
Students must be able to pass a drug screen if administered.
Admission is open to high school graduates/GED (or those who complete an ability-to-benefit test).
Applicants must possess a driving record free of current serious violations. Applicants who satisfy these criteria are asked to sign an Enrollment Agreement.

Coastal Truck Driving School
Applicant must be 21 years old. Exceptions will be made for persons at least 18 years old who can prove ability to benefit from the program and can provide a bonafide pre-hire letter as a commercial driver.*

Lake City Community College - Professional Truck Driver Training
What you need before applying:
Completed enrollment application
Valid driver's license
High school diploma, GED or demonstrated ability to benefit from the instruction
Acceptable driving record
Graduates of the program receive lifelong job placement assistance; the staff works with many major local, regional and long-haul companies.

LEBANON COUNTY CAREER SCHOOL
Professional Truck Driving School
ADMISSIONS INFORMATION
Director: Holly Reichert
Date for Applications: Always Open
Application Fee: None
Matriculation/Registration Deposit: None
Interview/Visit Required: Encouraged
Tests Required: Ability to Benefit test if no HS Diploma/GED
High School Diploma/GED: Yes

Mission Hill Truck School
ADMISSION REQUIREMENTS</SPAN>
In order to be accepted for training as a truck driver, an applicant must:
· Read, write and comprehend English or Spanish
· Be at least 18 years old. Minimum age for interstate driving is 21 years
· Required to obey school policies and procedures.
· Pass an ability to benefit test.
· Submit current Driver License.
· Present a Social Security card and Resident Alien Card, if applicable.

 

Now that wasn't very nice.......... I was just teasing you........ can't you take a little friendly ribbing?

I'm sorry, but who made you the Truckers Report topic cop?

I think I can discuss anything I want if someone wants to discuss it with me....... if you are not interested.... please just pass us by...... if you have an opinion, you are welcome to share it...... however, it would be nice if you tried to use a little more logic and actual verifiable facts when you attempt to assert your superiority......

And, for the record, I don't know anyone whose entire life is 100% devoted to any one thing......... are you telling me you have no family, interests, hobbies, pastimes or endevours that are not directly related to trucking? If not, I'm sorry ........ maybe I can recommend some?

I have certainly had my share of posting wars with some of these guys.... but being a little more polite and tackful wouldn't kill you..... would it?

 

Storyteller,

I think part of the problem is determining what constitutes "ability to benefit". In the case of a school, it seems to me (I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV - but I have friends who are lawyers, believe it or not), that no school makes any promises about life after school (I'm excepting company run schools).

The benefit from the point of view of the student isn't the post school job, or even the placement assistance - it's the certificate of completion, whether it be a BA, BS, CDL or broker license. The student has benefited because he now has the SKILLS - and proof thereof - to get a job in his chosen field.

Whether the student meets the other placement criteria held by members of the industry the student is seeking employment within is of no concern to the school. (legally. Still, Sage, for instance, made sure I was employable before they accepted me. It's one of the reasons I chose them over other schools - they didn't want me to waste my time. But they were not bound to by any rule of which I am aware)

Am I being clear? I'm getting a bit tired and may not be saying what I think I am

 

I knew this was going to happen once chief got his feathers a little ruffled ...... I never should have mentioned Ability to Benefit (ATB) and Superior Knowledge in the same thread........ they are two different things.....

As far as truck schools go...... the ATB requirement is set down from FSA in Title IV.... if the school wants to take any type of financial aid funds for ANY of their students then ALL their students must prove ATB under FSA guidelines...... and according to my 5 minute google search they all seem to be doing just that........

Now, the other issue...... the term "Superior Knowledge" came in because the poster felt he wasn't warned that his record would be an issue....... all I did was post a copy of Roadmasters warning that they make students sign (courtesy of another poster), and point out that under law many professionals are held to a higher responsibility (fiduciary or trust) in which the legal concept of Superior Knowledge is used to determine if someone has been taken advantage of.......... I was just giving information the poster might find helpful.......

Now, do I advocate blaming other people for your own stupidity????
OMG....... read some of my other posts..... absolutely not!
I think this poster should take personal responsiblity and make the best of the situation he has managed to get himself into......
However, I also think people have a right to information..... and when I advocate doing research and using a site like this as one of your resources...... it kinda follows that I believe people should share what they know...........

I was just sharing, not advocating........ remember, I'm the one who did NOT get my brokers license so that I could do what I wanted without full disclosure!!!

Any better?