Changing again, the rules change but we're not told til after.

drvrtech77 · Mar 20, 2016

Scott72 said: ↑

You don't bobtail on line 3?
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under fmcsa regs, in ic can bt on line 5 as personal conveyance as long as its for personal duty and not work related.

sicksfeet · Mar 20, 2016

Scott72 said: ↑

You don't bobtail on line 3?
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Dispatched for another load yes.

bobtail liability. A term coined to apply to auto liability coverage for an owner/operator after a load has been delivered and while the truck is not being used for trucking purposes.

Scott72 · Mar 21, 2016

drvrtech77 said: ↑

under fmcsa regs, in ic can bt on line 5 as personal conveyance as long as its for personal duty and not work related.
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I know that. You can pull a trailer too as long as it's empty.

Opus · Mar 21, 2016

redoctober83 said: ↑

Lol. Look at you both showing just how much of a Dipschitt you are. Glad to know you can live up to your name.
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man, that was kinda harsh, Red. But, not really a surprise. Good luck, hoss. You'll need it. If you can't be good, you'd better be lucky.

mickeyrat · Mar 21, 2016

Scott72 said: ↑

I know that. You can pull a trailer too as long as it's empty.
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And not under active dispatch or advancing to the next dispatch.

TennMan · Mar 21, 2016

Scott72 said: ↑

I know that. You can pull a trailer too as long as it's empty.
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You can't pull a trailer, pulling a trailer even empty is considered Laden and the rule clearly states line 5 can't be used while Laden.

As I was told by someone smarter than me, if the truck is being used in any way as it was engineered then it's considered Laden such as pulling a trailer doesn't matter if it's empty or loaded pulling a trailer is what it's engineered to do.

Take it for what you will.

kanidana · Mar 21, 2016

TennMan said: ↑

You can't pull a trailer, pulling a trailer even empty is considered Laden and the rule clearly states line 5 can't be used while Laden.

As I was told by someone smarter than me, if the truck is being used in any way as it was engineered then it's considered Laden such as pulling a trailer doesn't matter if it's empty or loaded pulling a trailer is what it's engineered to do.

Take it for what you will.
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It's semantic nonsense. Line 5 is off duty driving. If I empty out at a receiver, and take an empty home, how am I working? The reality of DOT log laws is that they are FOS in MANY CASES. Prime example....why do I need to log unload/load as working when I'm either driving or sitting in the sleeper berth (backing is driving)? The DOT log laws are simplistic, nonsensical, and do nothing for public safety or anything else.

Take it for what it is.....nonsense.

TennMan · Mar 21, 2016

While your sitting in sleeper berth you're supposed to log sleeper not on duty, you only log on duty if you're helping unload or load supervising loading or unloading in the example you gave. Also on private property you do not have to log driving.

I didn't say the regulations make sense or that I agree, but as I was told by DOT officer pulling an empty trailer on line 5 is a log violation.

kanidana · Mar 21, 2016

TennMan said: ↑

While your sitting in sleeper berth you're supposed to log sleeper not on duty, you only log on duty if you're helping unload or load supervising loading or unloading in the example you gave. Also on private property you do not have to log driving.

I didn't say the regulations make sense or that I agree, but as I was told by DOT officer pulling an empty trailer on line 5 is a log violation.
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Rephrase, your position seems to represent a subtle funny lawyer....from my perspective.

scythe08 · Mar 21, 2016

Here's all I could find on it. Both the FMCSA and Law enforcement seem to disagree on what it fully detail. Cops are going to do what they want to do.

What is personalconveyance?
How to avoid “personal conveyance” compliance violations

Posted July 2, 2014

Personal use and personal conveyance of a CMV is one of the “fuzziest” topics regarding HOS. This is because there is no regulation, and only one interpretation, pertaining to it. What is allowed is often a matter of enforcement. Question 26 of the interpretations for §395.8 discusses its use:

Question: If a driver is permitted to use a CMV for personal reasons, how must the driving time be recorded?

Guidance: When a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver's home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver's terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver's en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver's home, from the driver's home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden [i.e., loaded]. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier's CMV for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home. A driver placed out of service for exceeding the requirements of the hours of service regulations may not drive a CMV to any location to obtain rest.

Only two situations are specifically covered in the interpretation:

A driver’s commute to and from the terminal (normal work location)

Short personal trips from a driver’s enroute lodging.

Using the information that is in the interpretation above and in the definition of “on duty” and corresponding interpretation found in Section §395.2, the conditions of personal conveyance can be extrapolated.

The vehicle must be unladened.

Movement is of a “short” distance solely for personal use.

The driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work.

The driver is relieved of all duty and responsibility for the care and custody of the vehicle, its accessories, and any cargo or passengers it may be carrying.

The driver must be at liberty to pursue activities of his/her own choosing.

No work should be done until driver is ready to return to duty.

What about …

Fueling? Any time spent fueling a CMV or doing any other type of conditioning or servicing of the vehicle must be recorded as “on duty” time, even if it’s the weekend and the driver used the “personal conveyance” exception to take the truck home. This is especially true given that the “conditioning” and at least some of the fuel will likely be used for a business purpose, unless the driver can argue that the whole tank was used for personal conveyance.

The 10-hour break? As suggested above, time spent driving “off duty” will count as part of a driver’s consecutive 10-hour break. For example, if a driver commutes home in a CMV for 2 hours, rests for 6 hours, and then commutes back to work for 2 hours, it would count as a valid 10-hour break, as odd (and dangerous) as that may seem. Again, this is based on the fact that there are no restrictions on what a driver can do during his or her off-duty time, as long as the driver is truly “off duty.”

Authorization? It is ultimately the company’s responsibility to authorize or not authorize personal use of the company’s CMVs, although the DOT does not require written authorization. Motor carriers should check with their insurers to discuss coverage issues, and have policies and training in place so that drivers know exactly when they can use company CMVs for personal conveyance

Personal Conveyance and the ELD Proposal…

Personal Conveyance is mentioned in the FMCSA’s Supplemental Proposal, which was published on March 28, 2014, that mandates ELDs for most drivers of CMVs that currently log.

The proposal says that ELDs may be set up to allow drivers to put themselves in a special driving category called “personal use.” When a driver selects this option, the ELD will record the time as off duty until the driver de-selects the option.

The FMCSA doesn’t plan to set a threshold of distance or time, but officials can and will use the data from the ELD to determine whether the special category was appropriately used by the driver.

Several commenters to the proposal have requested that the FMCSA take the opportunity, through the rulemaking process, to better define personal conveyance.
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