Is it worth buying a used 2013+ truck? Is it true there all lemons ? HELP

The new engines don’t last 1/4 of the old pre-emission ones. If you want a money pit, buy an ISX. I honestly don’t know a single operator that has got over 500,000miles before a major overhaul. Up here in Canada, we haul heavier loads. Usually 145,000lbs. So we need big hp. An ISX pulling 80,000lbs. might last longer, but yes, they are extremely unreliable engines.

 

Well, they are all throw aways now a days, 500,000 miles as per the EPA. I just in framed my 2008 CM-871 down at Rawze's house. It was the second in frame in two years. Problem with these motors was the emissions, problems with the new motors is the emissions and now the high compression. Problem with my motor was a crap in frame.

If my motor would have been PROPERLY in framed two years ago, it would be a million mile motor with proper care. But, the dealership with the certified Cummins mechanics installed parts for a CM-2350 motor, 450hp, into my factory 600hp CM-871. They did not machine the block as they said they did, and they skipped more than a few crucial steps in the final assembly. It was a ticking time bomb, Rawze saved my bacon when he called and said, "Bring the truck to the house, we will in frame it right here in the driveway". And that is exactly what I did.

He helped and I did the majority of the work. It is a good motor, if you know what you have and how to work on one. But, it has been a very steep learning curve and incredibly costly. So, I will agree with you, these new emission motors will easily bankrupt you if you do not take the time to understand and learn how to properly diagnose and repair yourself.

The same can be said with all of the manufacturers. The benefit of owning a Cummins, and you missed this apparently, is that the programing is pretty much open source and Cummins offers all of the repair manuals and diagnostics for free on their Quickserve sight. I literally in framed my motor with a bag of tools and my iPhone in a driveway in Griffin Ga just South of Atlanta.

Yes, Rawze had the tools to machine the block and set the liners. It was quite the adventure especially since about as in depth mechanically I get prior to owning this truck is draining the carburetor on my lawn mower. Never done anything like this... But, seeing as a certified Cummins mechanic can royally screw it up, what the heck, I may as well take a shot! So far, so good. Rawze put the tune on it and she is breaking in nicely.

Honestly, get rid of the emissions and it is a good motor. Personally I think the CM-870 is a bit better, less crap, but that is just me.

Oh, and don't lug these motors, the reason the liners bust lose. That is all of them. Paccar is still busting crank shafts too...

 

Is there any actually reliable engines nowadays?

 

OK, can someone explain, what exactly is engine lugging? If I let the engine RPM drop to below 1,000, say, am I harming the engine?

 

Not really. These are literally throw away motors. The emissions halve their life expectancy. That is a fact. 500,000 and if you make it that far without an in frame or other MAJOR issues, you are one of the lucky few. I spent quite a bit of time in GA at Mr Hagg's Shop, Haggai Automotive and Diesel Repair. He in frames motors, and it is not pretty. And it is all brands, though he specializes in Cummins.

Biggest issue is a total lack of knowledge with the owners. They have no clue about these emission systems, and the dealers they purchase the trucks from are still just as clueless. These motors all have to be religiously attended to. Extended oil changes are a HUGE issue, and the manufacturers tell you to run the thing 30,000 miles with eighty pounds of soot in the oil chewing up the metal in the internals.

The days of simply servicing and lubing the truck are long gone. This Cummins powered ProStar of mine is my eight truck, and it has been a money pit and a steep learning curve. It is the emissions, my once lack of knowledge, and rip off shops and mechanics that have no right being mechanics.

You want to own one of these rolling abortions, educate yourself and buy tools and diagnostic equipment, because if you don't, you will go bankrupt. The reason I stick with the Cummins, I can get the software and the Inline unit on eBay for a few hundred bucks for diagnostics. And Cummins has everything you would or could want to know about their motors free on the internet. Like I said, I in framed my motor with a bag of tools and an iPhone. Try doing that with a DD15.

 

Yes, that is lugging. On the Cummins 100 to 1400 rpm is lugging territory depending on weight, speed, etc. The way the motor is designed is pretty p ss poor. The cylinders, liners, are set straight up and down, at 90* to the block. The liners sit on a very fine ledge in the block. When you lug the motor, the piston and rod is putting extreme pressure on the side of the cylinder wall, or liner. Do that enough and the liner breaks lose, or it frets. It is wobbling around in the block, which in turn takes out the head gasket and then eventually scores the underside of the head. In frame time, $28,000 minimum.

Bottom line, in these high compression motors, you need to keep the rpm's up, do not lug the motor. Bad things happen, and I have photos.

 

There is general problem with emission systems, devastating the durability of these engines with soot and ineptitude to effectively solve it on one hand... there are also ways, not quite approved by EPA on the other. So far, due to overall emission technology reliability fiasco, the status quo is maintained and it should be at least for as long as those system can be relied upon and stop being a great recipe for financial disasters for very common people. CARB enforcement in California loosened up lately, did it not?

 

Word is Trump is going to put the kibosh on CARB. Problem is he lost his man in the EPA, this new guy is not as good as Pruitt in handling these very real issues. Pruitt was hot on destroying CARB, this new guy, not so much.

 

I think so too, but it is still a CM-2350, with the new all in one emissions. From what I have been hearing, from my local dealer, it has been a good motor with fewer issues than the last generation. The real issue will be with the higher HP applications. There is a way to drive these motors, and then there is a way to destroy these motors. That is the real issue, lack of education on how to do just that. And then the maintenance... It is a continual PIA to keep these things running, and still very expensive. Best thing to do is get rid of the emissions and call it a day. The soot is the problem, carbon packing, and the damage it does internally. When the manufacturer says 20,000 to 30,000 mile oil changes, they are setting the owner up for failure. Chew on that one.

 

Hello, my engine is a Cat C-12, it is not one of those newfangled engines. Year 2000 , 446k miles. I own it and drive it, and I want to be a "good owner", but I am not sure exactly what I should do and exactly what is lugging. I sort of have a vague idea but no more.