Cam and crank sensor issue on cat motor

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by Cam Roberts, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. Cam Roberts

    Cam Roberts Road Train Member

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    Ok dig into it first thing this morning and printed all the documents the first fella gave me. Checked all resistance just to make sure none of the wires in harness were broken or touching. All is good there. Checked resistance at plug for both wires on crank sensor.Test came back with spec checked positive and negative leads as well to make sure they weren’t cross. Next I moved on to camshaft pins at the computer plug and meter not picking up anything. I’m like wtf. So I pulled plug off my new camshaft sensor and check the leads from plug to computer. Getting good readings from both wires and they aren’t crossed. Check my New sensor for the hell of it and low and behold, not picking up any ohms so my new sensor took a dump some how. Gonna go pick up a new one and maybe it was a fluke but I’m baffled. Like I said, truck started great for like 4 days before sensor went out
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  3. Cam Roberts

    Cam Roberts Road Train Member

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    Nothing wrong with either sensor now. And nothing wrong with any of the wiring and still having the weird starting. Just for the hell of it today, I unplugged the crank sensor and started the truck. Left the cam sensor plugged in. Now that I did that, the truck starts normal and runs perfect. Started it several times and fires right up. So where do we go with this? I have half a mind to leave it unplugged till I get the truck inspected. I thought the crank sensor assisted in starting and determining crank position yada yada.
     
  4. bigguns

    bigguns Road Train Member

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    I THINK the cam position relates the cam position to the ecm so it can change the timing to an optimal number. Have you run the truck down the highway so as to change rpms and the load on the engine?Any cam sensor I had go bad the engine shut off and would fire back up instantaneously. It did this so fast you couldn't realize the engine had cut off. The engine would kick back in before you could react and let up on the accelerator. What a bang you would get when the engine came back to life. This would go on randomly until the sensor was changed.
     
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  5. Cam Roberts

    Cam Roberts Road Train Member

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    I only had the truck a year and it’s always started funny like that. Some days every now and then it would start normal. I pull 73 thousand pounds all day long all season and it never skips a beat. Season a little slow so I’m trying to care of things on the truck now that I have time. Fixed wires going to both sensors and checked everything at the computer harness pins. Installed 2 new sensors. I was messing around with it today and for the hell of it I decided to crank it over with crank sensors unplugged and it starts like a cat should
     
  6. Hulld

    Hulld Road Train Member

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    Usually when you spin the engine over the crank sensor will sync with the cam sensor and then start.
    Also the way the ecm is programmed if one or the other of those sensors fail the engine will start and run on the remaining good sensor.
    Are you able to look in the holes of the crank and cam sensors with a light while baring the engine over and check for anomaly’s in the triggering surface ?
    Another way would be get an oscilloscope and check the wave pattern.
    I’m guessing it’s probably a square wave pattern for both sensors.
     
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  7. spsauerland

    spsauerland Road Train Member

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    At my old job had a 357 Pete with a 430HP 2KS C-12. From the day one when we got it would start, seem to die, then Rev up then idle perfectly. Had it checked out at first valve lash set and Cat said no issue found. It never had any issue from it is still running strong last I knew of. Never noticed this on the two 9NS C-12 we have at work in Freightliners. Now, we have four 2016 Pete 389 with MX-13 and they do it bad, almost violently but the 2016 T880's don't do it as bad. I think it is cam/crank synchronization vs idle fueling control mapping.
     
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  8. Cam Roberts

    Cam Roberts Road Train Member

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    Interesting. Yeah it’s a nuisance. Cat put a new computer in the truck when I got it and told them to look into but I don’t know. When I started working on this issue, I replaced both sensors. Truck still acres same way, so then I looked into the nasty wires and found that they were all exposed inside the harness from decay and oil. Plus all the wires were green from corrosion. Replaced all the wiring that was damaged. Got in the truck and truck started normal. I thought I fixed the problem. Started normal for 5 days or so. Then the other day it was back to acting weird. Maybe the new crank sensor got week from shorting out and then died a day a few days later after I repaired the harness? I checked the ohms. It’s getting proper spec. Is it possible to get proper ohms and sensor still be bad? Sensor obviously making truck act silly when it’s plugged in so the computer knows it’s there. Cam sensor is good becuase truck runs on it by itself. If I do the opposite, plug the crank in and unplug the cam, truck dies immediately. Will not run on crank sensor alone. Maybe bite the bullet and buy another crank sensor huh.
     
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  9. Hulld

    Hulld Road Train Member

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    I would check like I stated the triggering surface where the sensors go in.
    If the triggering surface has a problem you can throw new sensors at it all day long and come out with exactly the same result.
    Any local auto repair mechanic who does computer diagnostics should have a scope to throw on the two sensors and eliminate them from the equation quickly.
     
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  10. Cam Roberts

    Cam Roberts Road Train Member

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    Ok I gotcha. I’ll see if I can look up in there and see anything
     
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  11. Hulld

    Hulld Road Train Member

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    It only takes a little metal fragment to mess up a good square wave pattern coming out of the sensors.
    If you have an erratic single from the sensors to the ECM it could definitely cause your symptom.
     
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