Cummins N14+ cam shaft.

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by xsetra, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. Rubber duck kw

    Rubber duck kw Road Train Member

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    Sounds like fun, for the for the first hour maybe. Trucks are definitely nicer to work on than about anything else I've ever worked on.
     
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  3. xsetra

    xsetra Road Train Member

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    Took truck to Cummins shop to change camshaft. They said the metal that wore off the cam floated thru the motor.
    They recommend replacing with a recon long block and all new bolt on accessories.
    The one cam lobe was worn down 1/8" . They removed one of the main bearings it has grooves worn in the crank face, also was worn down to bronze or copper layer of bearing.
    Cam bearings he said looked good.
    He thinks all bolt on parts might be compromised with metal shavings.
    He says $25-$30g.
    Time to go shopping.
     
  4. Jaebo74

    Jaebo74 Medium Load Member

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    Man, that sucks to hear.
     
    xsetra Thanks this.
  5. Mudstick

    Mudstick Bobtail Member

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    One quick way to check if you have a bad/worn lobe on cam or the roller on cam box is when you pull the valve covers, if all the valves & injectors are properly adjusted then look at the adjustor lock nut & compare the height of each one, they should all be very similar. If there is a worn lobe then you will be able to see more threads on the adj set screw. To replace the camshaft you will need to pull the valve covers, Jake's if you have them, the rockers, push tubes, the fuel pump, air compressor, accessory drive, p/s pump, oil pump, ecm, starter, get all wiring, hoses out of way to remove the cam boxes. If you have 1 bad roller you know of then you may have more, plus you can check to see if they all roll good, no bearings going out. You can replace the rollers themselves. Will need to know what thickness gaskets are behind the cam boxes for timing purposes, never use silicone on them & all 3 will use the same thickness gaskets. You will also need to pull the Rad/CAC, crank dampner, fan, accessory drive pulley, alternator (ususually just bracket the has 1 bolt on front gear cover), drop the oil pan, use a bottle jack to raise the engine slightly, remove the front mount & the gear cover. There is also a cam support that is hrld on gear cover w 3 bolts that is shimmed, that will need to be reshimed w the new cam. I would also replace the rod & main bearings & the oil cooler, filters. Yes its somewhat of alot of work but in sure in the hell beats spending $10,000 +.
     
    xsetra Thanks this.
  6. xsetra

    xsetra Road Train Member

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    I'm towing the truck to another shop. I don't have a building to do the work myself.
    Last January I had all the front and rear springs, bushings, tie rod ends and king pins replaced.
    I have 300000 miles on the motor overhaul. Since the OH, I have replaced all the bolt on parts. Will do it again and the main and rod bearings.
    I will replace everything mentioned and the oil pump.
    Rough estimate is 10 g.
    I will start researching for a new truck. Maybe buy one this winter when I slow down.
     
  7. Mudstick

    Mudstick Bobtail Member

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    Where did you have it OH ? Even tho on a basic OH N14 you don't pull the cam, cam boxes they should of at least inspected & advised you of any wear. Most of the time when a N14 has cam problems it is because of lack of maintenance, something got into the oil (they were not very clean) when doing the OH, the adjustments were not set right. Unfortunately I have seen guys Not reset the Valves and Injectors after pulling up the rockers to replace injector(s), they would just impact the bolts back down. I personally HATE it. EVERY TIME I pull a set or sets of rockers I will retorque & reset my lash. .014 Intake. 027 Exhaust in Most Cummins. Thats my name & reputation on that repair. Or may not of had the push tube all the way in the cup of the roller (can bend a tube) or debris in the cup when they put the push tubes back in during the OH. When it comes to especially engine work it is imperative to be clean, prep is one the most important parts of repairs, rebuilding
     
  8. xsetra

    xsetra Road Train Member

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    The last oil change (3000 miles) opened up the filter, no signs of metal. I also replaced oil pan gasket, mechanic said cam had signs of wear. I had loads lined up to run. He thought it would be fine to change cam when I got back. Truck ran fine the entire trip.
    I stopped doing oil samples after OH. Didn't think I needed them until about 400000 miles after OH. Prior to OH, oil samples had no abnormal metal wear.
    If mechanic says crank is OK, I will fix. If not, it's time for a new truck.
     
    bzinger Thanks this.
  9. bzinger

    bzinger Road Train Member

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    Who knows with these cams anymore , I had 2012 isx inframed at 684k and the cam looked like I had dragged it behind the truck for 684k so new cam and rollers...all Cummins parts .
    At 228k last month opened it up for an overhead and had 1 bad lobe and roller so now I have another new cam , bearings and updated rollers .
    Of course Cummins offered me their deepest sympathys and wished me better luck this time .
    Oil was always changed in the low 20s up until shortly before the latest issue I had switched to full synthetic.
    Rarely idled for more than warm ups and cool downs .
    Ironically the fleet I'm leased also had a rash of isx cam issues at the same time , initially Cummins wanted to blame it on our oil supplier but finally admitted they are still having cam issues .
     
    xsetra Thanks this.
  10. BoxCarKidd

    BoxCarKidd Road Train Member

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    I used to do a lot of NTC engines. My job they called the dish washer. I cleaned everything up and did all the dirty work. Also got to pull the torque wrench. Cylinder problems were more common than cams to us but they both put metal in the oil. The filter is supposed to catch anything large enough to damage the engine unless it is stopped up. Then a bypass may allow unfiltered oil into the system.
    We used to replace crank bearings at about 350,000 miles. That was on a schedule just like changing oil. They normally showed some copper.
    Some lines worn in a journal is not to big of a concern. If the other 98% is good. Crank is supposed to ride on a film of oil and never touch the bearings anyway.
    If metal went all through the engine why are the cam bearings good?
    Somewhere along the lines I graduated from washing dishes and a 444 comes to mind. The crank was pretty rough but rods miched Ok and mains plastigaged OK. Explained that to the owner but we can hand polish the crank in the block and it will be OK. You just need to put bearings in it every 300,000 miles. That was on my opinion and he said to do that. This truck was towed back and the owner was there at the time. It had a bad rod. I was apologizing telling I thought it would be OK. He told me " You told me to have the bearings replaced every 300,000 miles. It has 575,000 on it since you worked on it and I never had that done. It was running hot and I was in a bind. in traffic, loaded and I ran it to the next exit."
    Old men from the 2nd great war probably taught most of that kind of stuff. Of how to do a lot with little.
    Changing the oil in a truck it had all kinds of clumps a stuff dropping out. Called the owner. Oh: The overhead cam went out but they replaced it under warranty. They did not even change the oil? No: They said it would be OK and don't worry about it. ( this was not a Cummins )
    It is sometimes interesting what is OK depending on who is paying for it.
     
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  11. xsetra

    xsetra Road Train Member

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    I use 50-50 blend semi- synthetic oil. Change about 15,000 miles.
    Doing my research now I should have changed cam when I had the OH. I'm big on preventive maintenance.
    Oh well. Thankfully even with these hiccups I manage to stay in the black.
     
    BoxCarKidd and bzinger Thank this.
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