Why is it better to have the tandems slid forward when alleydocking?

Discussion in 'Experienced Truckers' Advice' started by expedite_it, Sep 16, 2022.

  1. mustang190

    mustang190 Road Train Member

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    Just a side note,,,,,,, I hope you are not sliding the tandems unless the truck and trailer are straight??
    You wouldn’t believe how many times I have seen drivers trying to slide them turned.
     
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  3. expedite_it

    expedite_it Road Train Member

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    I added the direction points to the drawing in the photograph in the OP just to make 100% sure that there is no ambiguity. Here is my edit of the drawing in the photograph in the OP:

    updated alleydock September 17, 2022 (3).jpg

    I am finally starting to understand this. I am going to walk-thru how I would have to maneuver the tractor-trailer if I backed into the parking spot in the drawing in the above photograph if my tandems were all the way to the rear. For my hypothetical example, to keep it simple, let's assume I have perfect aim, and I don't have to do any pull ups. Also, let's assume that my tractor-trailer is in the position of the red tractor-trailer that I edited onto the drawing, NOT the yellow tractor-trailer. My understanding of the scenario in the drawing in the above photograph is that if the tandems are slid all the way to the rear, I am going to first have to turn the steering wheel a lot farther to the right (clockwise) to jack the trailer towards the parking spot. This will make the front grill of my tractor swing a lot farther to the west than would be necessary if I had the tandems were all the way forward. So this would necessitate more forward space to the west. Then (with the tandems to the rear) I am going to have to turn the steering wheel a lot farther to the left (counter-clockwise) "to get under it" to get the trailer straight with the tractor. This would make it so that I would need more forward space to the North than if the tandems were all the way forward. So if the tandems are all the way back, it makes it necessary to have both more forward space to the west and to the North. Is my understanding correct?

    _____________________________________________________________

    P.S. I have discussed this issue with at least ten other truckers, both on the message board and in real life. You're the first person who was able to help me understand this. I needed someone to put a bib on me and spoon feed me this information, which you did. Everyone else just let what you wrote in the quoted post above go without saying. You would probably make a good trainer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2022
  4. expedite_it

    expedite_it Road Train Member

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    I know not to try to slide the tandems unless the tractor is straight with the trailer.
     
  5. expedite_it

    expedite_it Road Train Member

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    Lester, you are so good at helping me understand this stuff that I hope you respond to this post as well, even though it is a quote of rockee's post. In fact, I invite everyone to respond to this post, not just rockee. Rockee, of course, I hope you respond to this post as well.

    When I do all that in reverse, like I am going to bump the dock, my understanding is that the rear bumper of the trailer would swing to the west (or, in other words, to the left). If the rear bumper swings to the west (left), I don't see how that is a problem. The only way the rear bumper could hit the trailer in the spot to the west of my tractor-trailer is if the nose of the trailer moved so far to the east that the nose of the trailer was east of the tandems. I never move the nose of the trailer east of the rear bumper on an alleydock back that is not a blind-side back..

    Is my understanding correct?

    I'm confused. I think most truckers know not to jack the trailer to the point that the nose of the trailer is east of the rear bumper on a sight-side back. So why is everyone mentioning tail swing as being a significant disadvantage of doing an alleydock back with the tandems all the way forward?

    Am I missing something here?
     
  6. Dave_in_AZ

    Dave_in_AZ Road Train Member

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    I almost always slide the tandems back once I'm in the dock. It's easier on the equipment during loading/unloading.

    99.9% of the time I back in with them set forward or, as far forward as the load dictated to scale legally.

    I'm just much more used to the way the trailer will swing like that, so my backing is more muscle memory than required thinking.

    It is actually easier to back with them slid back all the way.

    I'm a pretty good backer upper. I might be out of the truck a dozen times or do half a dozen pull ups at some very tight docks.

    Maybe you just drove 5 hours, and 10+ that day, and it's dark, or raining, or both, and you're also tired.

    Make a system for yourself that you're comfortable with and perfect and modify it for all situations.
     
  7. rockeee

    rockeee Medium Load Member

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    Take north east south and west out of the picture. Take the tractor to the left out of your picture. Take everything out of your picture except the right rear of your trailer. Pulling out of the dock, if there is something to the right of your trailer, if you turn too sharp your overhang will probably hit whatever is to the right. Backing into the dock, if you don't turn sharp enough, the right rear of the trailer will hit something because of the overhang. I think you have been driving for sometime so you should understand all of this if you have been bumping docks for awhile. I think you are making all of this way too confusing (for me haha)
     
  8. expedite_it

    expedite_it Road Train Member

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    The directions north, east, south, and west make it clear which direction I am talking about. When I was a student & at trucking school, my instructors/trainer would tell me "Pull up", and I did not know if they were instructing me to pull up to the north or the west. It was all a big guessing game.


    Yes. I first learned of trailer swing when driving forward ten years ago at trucking school.

    I totally understand the fact that when I am making a 45 degree alleydock into a loading dock, if I don't turn hard enough (in other words, if I don't jack it hard enough), the right (passenger side of the trailer) rear of the trailer will hit something period. Why did you say "if I don't turn hard enough, the right rear of the trailer will hit something because of the overhang."

    What does the overhang have to do with it? If i don't turn hard enough, the right rear of the trailer will hit something no matter where the tandems are.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2022
  9. Allow Me.

    Allow Me. Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    Allow Me to jump back in here. I haven't seen anyone mention wheelbase. Your truck does not know how much trailer is behind the rear tandems, right ? You are manuevering your equipment backwards, the steer axle pivots, the 5th wheel pivots, but nothing else. So, wheel base (which is middle of steer axle to middle of rear axle on trailer) is what we are talking about. You could have 10ft behind the rear tandem or 6 in. It's the wheels you are concerned about and allowing for equipment overhang.

    Also, when you get a chance, take notice of a set of doubles (2 28' trailers) making a turn in downtown somewhere. Turns probably easier than a 53'. Because there's 2 extra pivot points ( and wheel base is longer !)
     
  10. rockeee

    rockeee Medium Load Member

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    Because you said this......"So why is everyone mentioning tail swing as being a significant disadvantage of doing an alleydock back with the tandems all the way forward?"
     
  11. Brettj3876

    Brettj3876 Road Train Member

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    If my tandems we're all the back I'd never get into half the places I go. Just be mindful of tail swing, if you've been doing this long enough you'll know where the tail we be anyways

    [​IMG]
     
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