NC Truck Driver Training School

camofrawg83 · May 18, 2010

Sorry I've been outta loop for the last few days. I got very lucky with TWT. But with going to JCC you open so many doors. And look around for better opportunities.

It was great to meet you too David. Maybe we will get to run togather in the future. Got to ride/watch today and it was cool. Hope to drive tommorrow, we are running chips. Keep yall posted.

wsyrob · May 19, 2010

camofrawg83 said: ↑

Sorry I've been outta loop for the last few days. I got very lucky with TWT. But with going to JCC you open so many doors. And look around for better opportunities.

It was great to meet you too David. Maybe we will get to run togather in the future. Got to ride/watch today and it was cool. Hope to drive tommorrow, we are running chips. Keep yall posted.
Click to expand...

I see a lot of TWT trucks hauling Dry bulk tanks. Those must be the plastic chips. I like the dry bulk loads I get. No surge and all ours are drop hook. I couldn't begin to tell you how to unload one.

davidw · May 19, 2010

Wsyrob, On the liquid resin, it is already loaded and we unload it at the plant. The dry bulk, the driver will load and unload it. It pays alittle extra to load it. Watched my trainner load one, and it don't seem to be that bad to do.

camofrawg83 · May 19, 2010

Yeah, I trained on dry bulk today(no resin Wed, May 19, 2010 for us). It was great. Its really not bad to ld/unld, jus a lot to remember. But pulling was a breeze. Back on resin tomm so 0230 start. Lovin the tanker yankin so far.

wsyrob · May 19, 2010

You have both made very good decisions to start in a specialized part of trucking.

Below is a post from another board I had saved saved in a word file. This is one of the reasons I wound up pulling a tank:

Cyanide said:

Detention/Load/Unload/Tankwash Pay:
This is generally more common with chemical tankers, yet several food-grade outfits do pay it. This is the #1 reason why I feel tanker is better than general freight hauling. In trucking you will sometimes be waiting hours on end loading or unloading, so why not get paid for it? Yes, many companies that pay this may require you to give up the first hour or two free, but after that you draw an hourly wage provided you were on time for your appointment. Some companies will pay their driver a flat rate, and then also detention after the required hours waiting.

The difference between tanker companies and freight companies that pay detention is that with tanker, if your company says they pay it, you get paid it. None of this "WE'LL PAY YOU DETENTION IF WE GET PAID IT." crap. Put together the hours you spend waiting to load/unload in a week, a month, or even a year and multiply that at say, $8/hour (after the first or even second hour) and see how much extra income that provides. If and when you have to take the tank to a washout facility then more pay for the miles there, and in the case of chemicals and some food-grade companies, pay for the tank wash itself.

Now concerning tank washes, unless the tank you're hauling is dedicated to one product, it must be washed out prior to reloading. In the case of chemicals, here's a golden rule of responsibility for a driver when accepting a tank...CLEAN, DRY, and ODOR-FREE. Clean for obvious reasons. Dry because moisture alone can have a very bad reaction with certain chemicals. Odor-free because if something can be smelled, the tank isn't clean! This rule also applies to ensuring that your hoses, fittings, and truck pump are the same after washing.

All chemical companies and several food-grade companies pay the driver for this when required to wait for the cleaning, but on the other hand, most food-grade companies do not. Many chemical companies will maintain a number of tanks at a tank wash facility so that a driver can come in, drop-and-hook the dirty for a clean one, and either get some rest or head out for their next load. Also, many companies use the tank wash facility as satellite yard locations. This comes in handy when you learn the network and locations, because it means that you almost always have a place to park and relax, sleep, shower, etc. without fighting for a spot at a truckstop.

Safety:
When pulling a tank, I don't worry about my dispatcher giving me a load that I couldn't get to it's destination "yesterday". If a situation arises where I can't make it there on time, a phone call is made and the receiver is notified. With chemicals you will get plenty of time to meet your scheduled appointments. Safety is paramount and will not be compromised! This also applies to winter driving (chaining). If the weather is bad enough for chains then it's time to get safely parked well before this situation arises.

Now the big difference in food-grade vice chemicals is that the schedules can be tight at times depending upon the product being hauled (eggs and raw milk are excellent examples due to potentially harmful bacteria counts from rising temperatures, and raw milk also deals with quality degradation...such as from Grade A to Grade B). Generally speaking though, drivers still get plenty of time to meet their delivery appointments WHEN they actually have one, as this is typically a first-come, first serve basis for unloading.

Legality:
Tanker drivers never worry about having an overweight load, much less trying to get axle weights proper. No more sliding tandems or worries about a bridge law!

As to logging, with chemical tanks and several food-grade companies you CAN AND WILL make a comfortable income logging events as they happen, due to getting paid for your time spent waiting on line four, on-duty, not driving (loading, unloading, tank wash, breakdown, etc.), and not being solely dependent upon mileage pay (for proof, see my figures after starting with Superior Carriers in August 2006).

Loading/Unloading:
Tanker drivers never deal with lumpers...period. With many food-grade companies this task is done entirely by the shippers and receivers, end of story. The driver's involvement requires nothing more than weighing in empty at the shipper or loaded at the receiver, giving their pickup or delivery number, pulling or backing into a bay (if live loading/unloading), getting loaded or unloaded and washed out, weighing out, getting their paperwork, checking seals, etc., and getting on the road.

With chemicals the procedure is similiar in the respect of weighing in at the shipper/receiver, paperwork, seals, etc. But after that entails much more responsibility during the loading/unloading procedure. The loading is usually done by the shipper and the driver's involvement usually requires opening the tank's dome lid and monitoring the product loading/unloading, pulling a sample, ensuring there are no leaks or spills, no defective equipment, etc. Yes, chemical tanker drivers (and some food-grade) may do the majority of the unloading. When this occurs, they're compensated for it (see above note).

Between running either a dry van, reefer, or chemical tank, it's simply no contest. I'd much rather hook up hoses and fittings, watch for leaks, pressurize my tank and ensure the pressure stays constant or ensure my pump functions properly during unloading, and finally clean out my equipment when finished then drag a pallet jack back and forth, slave over a floor load, break down and restack several different products, count pieces of freight, deal with multi-stop loads, wait long periods of time in a grocery warehouse/distribution center listening to the C.B. for a door assignment and/or to get loaded/unloaded, wondering what decision will be made for an O.S. & D. claim (Over, Short, and/or Damaged), and dealing with how much a lumper wants for unloading, knowing very well the company will pay them good but certainly not you or I (without lying on a lumper receipt). If I wanted some hard-earned money for physical labor I'd go either local L.T.L Pick-up and Delivery, or flatbedding.

I distinctly remember that I attended driving school to learn the following...inspect and drive a safe, road worthy tractor-trailer combination vehicle, ensure that the appropriate paperwork is done neat, complete, and that everything matches up, and deliver the customer's product safely while staying legal according to the guidelines set forth by the D.O.T. Remember always that C.D.L. does not stand for "Certified Driver Lumper"! I'm not a dock worker and regardless of how much "no touch freight %" a company has, or how high they say that they pay for driver unloading...no thanks.

Miles:
Miles...this definitely has two perspectives. For the most part, if you want to turn maximum miles then food-grade with an over-the-road company is usually the place to be, as you can get loads that typically are as long as van/reefer teams get. If you want to get decent miles yet be paid for all your work then go chemical. With food-grade you should be able to average 3,000 miles weekly, and with chemical 2,300 plus accesory pay. One way or another you keep the wheels moving, even if it's doing some local driving, where you will usually get paid a percentage of the load's cost (some companies pay mileage plus an additional short haul premium).

With many tankers, the wheels keep turning, even if it's deadheading 1,000+ miles for the next load, which may only be delivering another 200 miles away! The miles are very consistent in food-grade tanking and drivers simply do not sit around unless it's by choice. Many times you're already preplanned on a load a full day ahead of your delivery appointment or E.T.A., sometimes two. Food-grade companies always have stuff waiting to be picked up and delivered, especially if milk is a primary load (cows don't quite understand exactly what a day off is, much less holidays and vacations). If you can't get miles, then something is terribly wrong. With chemicals your mileage can fluctuate depending upon the time of the year, which is where all the accessory pay adds up!

Hometime:
I get it when I tell my company I want it, and I don't get messed with about the duration of time off I take. I also have had no problems with taking time off on the road when passing through somewhere a friend lives. As long as the load is getting picked up and delivered on-time, and out-of-route miles are minimal to none, this has never been an issue, nor should it be.

For general chemical tank info, most companies get their drivers home every week to week-and-a-half (unless a driver chooses to stay out longer), and have been doing so long before many freight companies figured out that drivers who get by the house more are usually a lot happier.

Shippers and Receivers:
Simply put, much more pleasent to deal with. Tanker drivers deal with people happy to see and work with them. As a normal O.T.R. driver hauling around a van or reefer can you say that on a consistent basis at a grocery warehouse, distribution center, automotive plant, etc.? I couldn't, and was in shock for my first several loads with a tank at the reception I got, be it chemicals or food-grade.

Manueverability:
Handling a tank compared to a 53-footer is a cake walk, especially through a truck stop. I have no worries about taking off someone else's hood due to trailer overhang when trying to back into a parking spot. I also have a better view of things around me and the trailer, and when going through some particular cities don't have to worry as much about low clearances.

Now I'll cover several of the NEGATIVES associated with tankers...

Assigned equipment:
That is, if it really is that much of an issue with you. If you are looking for a big condo sleeper you won't find it with this type of trucking, unless it is an O/O or possibly a team. Look around and you'll still see some trucks equipped with a tiny 42" to 50" flattop or midroof sleeper. However, many companies have started to spec their trucks more for driver comfort, as witnessed by going to a 60" to 70" midroof sleeper (see photo links attached to company info).

The main reasons behind this is weight and height requirements. You must remember that one, liquid weighs more than dry freight and that you WILL BE LOADED TO MAX ALLOWABLE WEIGHT, which can range anywhere from around 45,000 to 53,000 pounds worth of payload behind you depending on the product. Also, some food-grade and ALL chemical tank companies have equipment for unloading on the truck (hoses, fittings, pump, etc.), so you cannot have a super-size truck unless you're going to consistently pull a small tank, and that applies only to chemicals. Two, most chemical plants and many food-grade places of business have low clearance points and a condo sleeper just won't fit around in there. Now I'll touch on some of the other equipment many tanker drivers deal with...

Fittings are standard issue for a tanker-yanker who unloads. Fittings are necessary for connecting hoses to other hoses, loading, and converting larger/smaller units to the other for easier unloading. Examples of these would be a 3" and a 2" male-to-female connector, a 3" and a 2" male-to-male connector, a 3" and a 2" female-to-female connector, a 3" to 2" converter, a 2" to 1" converter, and a drum-unloading nozzle (looks like a gas pump handle). These are usually kept in a box on the back of the truck by the hose rack (see below), or mounted on the truck frame. However, some drivers keep their fittings in one of their sleeper side boxes.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...1/Fittings.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ttings_Box.jpg

Hoses are pretty much self-explanatory. Standard issue is usually (1) 20-foot section of 3" diameter, and (2) 20-foot sections of 2" diameter at a minimum. Some companies have a hose rack or box for storage of these on the back of the truck, some keep the hoses stored in the hose tubes on the tank itself. When I was with C.T.L. I had (4) sections of the 2" hoses in addition to the 3" section, just in case! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...1/Hoserack.jpg

You'll also have a 50' section of 1" hose for air-pressure unloading when using the truck's air compressor. This one is so long because sometimes you may have to run this hose from your air compressor outlet hook-up to the rear of the tank. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...71/Airhose.jpg

Finally, you'll have an inlet and outlet hose for hooking up in-transient heat. This is necessary for several products where a certain temperature must be maintained. It's a simple process of cycling antifreeze through pipes located in the belly of the tanker after coming from your engine.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Heat_Hoses.jpg

Hometime with equipment:
Another issue to some is that most chemical tanker and some food-grade companies will not let you take the truck home with you during your time off. Some won't even hire you if you don't live within a certain mileage radius of the nearest terminal, usually within a two-hour drive or less. With chemicals you must remember what type of products you're dealing with and, what could potentially happen if someone were to start fooling around with the equipment and there was any residual product! Another factor with this is company's insurance requirements and liabilities.

Personal safety equipment:
This pretty much applies alone to chemicals. You'll be issued an acid suit, hardhat, goggles, safety glasses, extended length gloves, knee-high rubber steel-toed boots, and a respirator at a minimum. This is for your protection! However, in the summer your protective suit gets very hot and you'll sweat profusely. You'd best be drinking lots of water to stay hydrated. The last thing you need is to become a heat casualty while loading/unloading! In winter your suit will stiffen up (much like a flatbedder's tarps but on a lot smaller scale!) and can be hard to move around in. The faceshield on your hardhat can fog up if you don't take preventive measures, which can make monitoring your tank pressure gauge, hoses, and the storage tank level difficult.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ide971/PPE.jpg

From personal experience, P.P.E. works as advertised. Long story short, I had a hose rupture while unloading acid. Had I not been wearing the proper AND required gear, I would've received burns to my entire body, most notably my face, hands, and chest. The stuff works folks, so wear it. NEVER take a shortcut...it may just kill you.

Surge:
If you've never driven a tanker before, take a bottle and fill it up halfway or three-quarters. Turn it on it's side and move it back and forth. You now have surge on a much smaller scale. Now imagine that with anywhere from 3,500 to 6,500 gallons of product behind you! This is what we tank drivers deal with daily, and from personal experience is the number one cause of driver turnover during the first month of transition. This seems to cause uneasiness with drivers new to this type of driving, and even though it is easily controlled by simply altering driving habits, many cannot adapt to it and return to where they came from.

Surge will hold you back going up hill, and help push you down on the flip side (no pun intended). If you get into a situation where you must brake hard, expect to get pushed forward quite a few feet. You must always give yourself plenty of stopping distance, and then some. You must remember that with a tanker you literally have tons of centrifugal force working against you at all times that you are in motion (especially since most O.T.R. tankers are smoothbore, non-baffled). If you go into a corner or turn too fast, the product will "walk" up the inside tank wall and once it gets past the breaking point, there is no return...you're done. In extreme cases, you can turn too sharply as in jacking a trailer around in a parking lot and rollover also.

A tanker is not for everybody because the product behind you moves constantly. There are no load locks, straps, or chains to secure and hold the product in place. This is one reason many tanker companies require you to have at least one full year of experience before they'll hire you. With many food-grade companies, most want at least two years of all-weather and mountain experience, since many of the runs are very fast-paced and require driving as hard as legally possible. Generally speaking, it's too dangerous to stick an inexperienced driver with 48,000 plus pounds of liquid behind him/her when you're in the beginning stages of learning how to handle a tractor-trailer combination vehicle.

Miles:
You may ask why I put miles here, as well in the advantages section... Here's why, and it pertains more to food-grade than chemicals. With food-grade companies such as Jim Aartman, Bynum, and Indian River/North American Tank Lines, drivers DO NOT load or unload the product or anything associated with that procedure except for weighing in/out, and pulling/backing into a loading bay. The driver's job entails picking up and delivering the product they're transporting safely, and that's it. Remember that as an average each trip is going to be between 1,300-2,000 miles (from personal experience), their freight lanes take them across many 70-75 m.p.h. states, and that their trucks are capable of running those speed limits. What this means is that you should realistically expect to put in a minimum of 600 to 660 miles daily with one of those carriers. Sometimes you'll push upwards of 700 to 750, and sometimes you can slack a little.

However, if you are coming from a carrier governed around 65 m.p.h. and are used to running only 550 to 600 miles daily at maximum, this may and/or will be quite an adustment and may lead many to think they are dispatched and/or run illegal. NOT SO!!! Remember this...
1. Eggs, milk, and juice in bulk liquid form are very temperature-sensitive products that, barring extreme cold weather, can only be kept at a safe temperature for so long by the tank's insulation. This isn't the same as keeping these products loaded in the back of a reefer, where you can maintain a set temperature, allowing for longer transit times.
2. As stated before, many food-grade loads can be treated on a first come, first serve basis for unloading. The drivers still have appointments like everyone else, but they are usually appointment dates (many of the loads you'll read about in my posts when running food-grade were delivered a day earlier than scheduled.).

If you have any doubts about being able to push hard consistently day in and day out, then you may seriously want to think very hard before ever hauling food-grade tankers. Once again, it's not for everyone, but remember, different strokes for different folks....

Miscellaneous:
We tanker-yankers are not exactly normal, depending what your definition of that is. Hauling a tank requires more safety awareness, discipline, and responsibility than driving a van/reefer (okay, and maybe a few loose nuts and bolts)...ATTENTION TO DETAIL!!! This isn't a knock against those drivers, but many simply don't want to deal with that. There are some drivers who would just rather open a couple of doors and bump a dock, and some who would rather throw straps, chains, and/or tarps. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Everyone must choose what suits them, and only them, best.

However, there are the ones that no matter how fast it is, it's not fast enough. They've always gotta go, go, go. Get in a hurry here and you are an accident waiting to happen. Excessive speed and throwing caution to the wind makes you very prone to flipping a tank just for taking an off ramp or turn too fast. That 50,000 plus pound "gorilla" in the tank will happily jump up the inside wall and well, you can imagine the rest... No thanks. I'll be happy taking a little longer to get up to the posted speed limit, taking my turns very slowly, slowing down way in advance of that stop ahead, etc. If another driver chooses to complain about a tanker holding them up, tough. The safety of myself and my fellow people on the road are much more important than some "outlaw" crying because they didn't plan accordingly...Proper Planning Prevents Pizz Poor Performance!

The moment you lose respect for what's behind you, you are done. That cannot be stressed enough. Liquid in motion is very unforgiving.

To summarize, chemical tankers generally get paid for everything related to work (similar to a union job), whereas food-grade has greater potential for more miles, yet no accessory pay (depending on the company).

If you discover that you like tank but not hauling hazmat then switch to food-grade after you get your time in. Many food-grade drivers got their start doing just that...myself included for a time . If you discover that tank is not for you for whatever reason, IMHO, you can go to dry van or reefer with a much greater sense of awareness and safety than many other drivers of equal experience because of your time pulling a tanker.
Click to expand...

davidw · May 19, 2010

Camofrawg83, after you and Mario finished loading and hit the road, me and James loaded a dry bulk for another drive to pull tommorrow. I know you had a good day working with Mario, James spoke very highly of him.

camofrawg83 · May 21, 2010

Yeah, Mario is great. I hope to run with James some too. Sat will be last day training on resin. Sun off/reset. Ready to run alil solo.

beancounter · May 21, 2010

Hey david or camo,

What kind of home-time does TWT offer. I'm trying to wittle down my options to a select couple of co's. Thanks.

camofrawg83 · May 21, 2010

Hometime varies from what I gather so far but its def not weeks at a time. And we always come back to Fay. Make a LONG list and call/apply # all. I had 3 probables that left me hangin.

beancounter · May 21, 2010

Thanks for the come-back and the tip camo. Just curious, but what happened to McElroy, it sounded like that was promising and then fell out on ya.

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