The whole EGR "business"

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by Powell-Peralta, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. Powell-Peralta

    Powell-Peralta Road Train Member

    1,585
    240
    Jul 17, 2007
    0
    OK, i admit that:

    1) i didn't give a crap

    2) Was and am "too busy."

    3) Don't fully understand emmissions

    So, what happened was that around 05ish or so, there was this big hubbub about the egr thing----truck sales would plummet etc. The whole trucking industry was going to get "shaken up" etc.

    i admit, back then, i didn't care.

    So could you completely break it down to the very basics and go very slowly from the very beginning in describing what this EGR business is all about?

    i understand( i think?) the basic concept behind exhaust gas recirculation---some or all of the exhaust gas is re-fed into the combustion chamber so as to reburn any unburned fuel/exhaust or something like that so as to cut down on harmful emmissions.
     
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. josh.c

    josh.c Road Train Member

    1,105
    420
    Feb 22, 2009
    Knoxville, Tn
    0
    This article explains it better than I could.

    Wikipedia EGR

    The basic idea is that the less excess oxygen in the power stroke, the less nitrous oxide emissions. I think. So it isn't about re-burning some of the exhaust, it's about keeping the excess oxygen from forming oxides of nitrogen (talking strictly about diesels here). All this makes for a less efficient burn, which actually makes more particulate emissions (soot) which is why the '07 emissions trucks have DPFs. As far as the timeline goes, EGR on diesels started with what was supposed to be 2004 emission standards, but as part of a lawsuit between EPA, CARB, and the engine makers, the '04 standards were pushed up to October '02. Everybody but Cat went with EGR, Cat went with a two turbo setup (Acert).

    So I probably haven't done anything but put a bunch more questions in your brain, but there you go.
     
  4. BrainHurtz

    BrainHurtz Light Load Member

    245
    57
    Jun 24, 2008
    Terre Haute, In
    0
    To put it simply in a modern electronic engine EGR is used to control the combustion temperature with the fundamental goal to reduce NOx generation.

    For EPA2010 emissions using SCR to control NOx the EGR can be significantly reduced, though it still serves a valuable purpose of reducing cylinder (and exhaust) temperatures.
     
    josh.c Thanks this.
  5. George C

    George C Bobtail Member

    41
    2
    Jun 25, 2009
    0

    In a nutshell, exhaust is re-introduced back into the engine to kill the oxygen that creates unacceptable levels of NOx. This kills power, creates massive amounts of soot and heat, and slowly and systematically kills your engine oil.
    The new SCR engines are the way to go. Yeah the surcharge sucks as well as maintaining SCR fluid levels, but all of the engine killing heat, and the power robbing byproducts of EGR are greatly reduced to where we have our powerful and efficient engines back.
     
    josh.c Thanks this.
  6. BrainHurtz

    BrainHurtz Light Load Member

    245
    57
    Jun 24, 2008
    Terre Haute, In
    0
    Unfortunately there is a lot misinformation here. EGR lowers the combustion temperature, which creates soot. The higher heat rejection requirements are because of the EGR cooler, the engine itself is using less of the cooling capacity than its non-EGR equivalent. The modern EGR engines will produce more power and torque than a non-EGR equivalent at the same emissions output.

    Obviously I am not talking about the first generation engines, only the most modern.
     
  7. V8Lenny

    V8Lenny Road Train Member

    1,016
    130
    Aug 3, 2008
    Europe
    0
    ...which raises EGTs due to slower burn.
     
  8. BrainHurtz

    BrainHurtz Light Load Member

    245
    57
    Jun 24, 2008
    Terre Haute, In
    0
    Still wrong. Diesel doesn't "burn" like a gasoline engine, it explodes, hence the distinctive sound and much much higher cylinder head pressures.

    The engine will control EGT to make sure it is high enough to continue the reaction in the DPF, but it is not doing that through EGR, but through back-pressure and timing.

    What's the last truck you saw with a pyrometer? Modern engines don't need them, most truck manufacturers don't even offer the option anymore.
     
  9. truckermanitoba

    truckermanitoba Bobtail Member

    6
    5
    Jun 14, 2010
    winnipeg manitoba
    0
    cool driven trucks with the stuff on it just did not know how it worked. i just knew when it stopped. lots of black smoke lol
     
  10. V8Lenny

    V8Lenny Road Train Member

    1,016
    130
    Aug 3, 2008
    Europe
    0
    They both "burn", diesel sound comes from accumulated fuel from ignition delay.

    Egts are not kept high for DPF, we don't even have DPFs in Europe. Re tarded timing and EGR have same effect, lower combustion temperature and slover combustion and higher EGTs. Higher EGTs are just a negative side effect of this emission crap, no-one wants it. No-one wants backpressure either.

    I have never seen a truck with EGT from the factory, European trucks and drivers have never needed them.
     
  11. V8Lenny

    V8Lenny Road Train Member

    1,016
    130
    Aug 3, 2008
    Europe
    0
    Then your EGR stuck open. If it stopped working your smoke levels would be lower.
     
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.