Hazmat, yard jockey, and employer question

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by Bart69Rich, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. Bart69Rich

    Bart69Rich Bobtail Member

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    1. Are hazmat quantities based on the material itself or material plus packaging?

    My situation is that I often haul co2 racks weighing around 900lbs but only 400lbs of actual gas. My employer seems to think we can haul 2 racks totally 800lbs of gas without placarding. I thought the total weight is over 1800 lbs so it should be.


    2. My employer recently leased an additional lot on the street directly behind our plant. The yard jockey does not need to go on the road to get there but he has to technically leave the property and go over railroad tracks to get on the other property. I believe he is required to have a cdl....my employer disagrees. Who is right?



    3. I was reading in the regulations that my employer is supposed to have a cdl and also read on here about companies safety officers...none of my direct supervisors have a cdl and I've never been informed of a safety officer. Could anyone please expand on this as far as the company's responsibility on both of those items?



    Thank you for your time...
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
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  3. Allow Me.

    Allow Me. Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    Never heard of the employer having to have a CDL or the safety guy either. If the yard dog doesn't go on public property, the driver won't need a CDL. And I'm guessing here, weight for Haz loads includes the packaging.
     
  4. Bart69Rich

    Bart69Rich Bobtail Member

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    Cleveland, Ohio
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    ok here's my thinking on this...Is crossing railroad tracks the same as crossing a road? Because even if you drive directly across the road to a driveway right across the street you need a cdl....I was assuming that crossing railroad tracks would be the same??

    Take for instance if he gets stuck on the tracks or even worse has a collision with the train??? What happens when this is investigated and he has no CDL?
     
  5. sazook

    sazook Road Train Member

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    There are "limited quantity" exceptions for placarding haz mat. I've hauled a load with 2500#'s of fire extinguishers on it that did not need a placard.
     
  6. rightlane4trucking

    rightlane4trucking Light Load Member

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    Mount Shasta, California
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    1. Placarding requirements (49CFR172.504) are based upon aggregate gross weight and therefore include the weight of the packages.

    2. Federally, a CDL is required if the commercial vehicle is operated on a highway. 49CFR390.5 defines a highway as follows:

    Highway
    means any road, street, or way, whether on public or private property, open to public travel. “Open to public travel” means that the road section is available, except during scheduled periods, extreme weather or emergency conditions, passable by four-wheel standard passenger cars, and open to the general public for use without restrictive gates, prohibitive signs, or regulation other than restrictions based on size, weight, or class of registration. Toll plazas of public toll roads are not considered restrictive gates.

    The determining factor is if the commercial vehicle is being operated in an area that is open to the general public. If so, a CDL is required.

    Also remember that the states can enact more restrictive CDL requirements.

    3. Your employer or company safety official are required to hold a CDL only if they operate a commercial motor vehicle on a highway (as defined above).
     
    Bart69Rich Thanks this.
  7. Bart69Rich

    Bart69Rich Bobtail Member

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    Dec 20, 2010
    Cleveland, Ohio
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    Thank you very much Rightlane4trucking.

    Since one has been answered over and over for me...Im set on that.
    I would very much like to know a definitive answer on 2. Like I said before, the only thing the jockey has to cross is railroad tracks to go from one piece of property to another. I guess the question here is are those railroad tracks considered "highway" or "way". Again I need to pose the question....If a non-cdl carrying jocky gets stuck on the tracks...or collides with the train on those tracks...will DOT be asking where his CDL is?????

    If possible can someone ask DIESELBEAR this...apparently I cannot PM him until I have 7 posts and Im not going to spam to do that....thx again everyone!!!
     
  8. dibstr

    dibstr Road Train Member

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    Aggregate gross weight means a the total weight of "all" hazardous materials. In other words if one had 2 Table 2 hazardous material containers/packages each containing 500 pounds, the aggregate gross weight of the hazardous materials would be 1000 pounds. The package weight is not considered.

    172.504 (c)(1) A transport vehicle or freight container which contains less than 454 kg (1001 pounds) aggregate gross weight of hazardous materials covered by Table 2 of paragraph (e) of this section; or

    Best regards
     
  9. Bart69Rich

    Bart69Rich Bobtail Member

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    Dec 20, 2010
    Cleveland, Ohio
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    Once again a wrench in the works......ugh...I think my questions are unanswerable.....since everyone says something different.....#### regulations are soooo foggy
     
  10. dibstr

    dibstr Road Train Member

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    They are that sometimes. But sometimes it helps to look at DOT sources other than a reg itself to make sense of the reg. For instance DOT Placard Charts tend to shed some light on the intent of the reg in question with the following statement.

    "When the gross weight of all hazardous materials in non-bulk packages covered in Table 2 is less than 454 kg (1,001 lbs), no placard is required on a transport vehicle or freight container [§172.504(c)]."

    Note that the DOT itself on their own charts state that (the gross weight of all hazardous materials in non-bulk package) it's the HM in the package, not the HM and the package.

    Best regards
     
  11. statikuz

    statikuz Medium Load Member

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    My opinion is that the yard jockey doesn't need to have a CDL.

    Is the railroad crossing that he will be using accessible by the general public or does it just separate the two pieces of property belonging to your company?
     
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