Do you run illegal on your logs?

Sadly, your points are hard to argue. It's even more sad to know that drivers feel pressured into placing themselves and the motoring public in harms way by uncaring dispatchers at the other end of a Qualcomm terminal or phone. Dispatchers can and do go to jail but I seriously doubt that having them as a cell mate will be of any consolation to a driver who finds himself at the action end of handcuffs. Don't let them place you in that situation. If you catch any crap from them, then take the matter to your terminal manager or safety department. If they have not taken care of your issues, then find another employer who does address your concerns. Ask about their safety practices and procedures during the interview process. Interview the company in the same manner that they are interviewing you. Believe me, a driver who runs legally is a great asset to many good companys. I know that I'm making it sound simple but drivers have to realize that running illegally or running fatigue will catch up to them one day. I just hope that you don't have to pay for your mistakes with your life or someone else's. Remember that you are the one who is solely responsible for the safe operation of your vehicle.

Whatever you all do, remember to be safe.

 

I agree with everthing you said. Now! Let's break it down to the plain truth.

Point 1 Dispatchers only go to jail when facts place part of the responsibilty squarely on their shoulders. We all know, only a "stupid" dispatcher would send these orders through a QC communication. So the majority, use the phone...then run you through several other supervisors giving the same subtle threat.

Point 2 All potential employers (with a few exceptions) will tell you whatever they think it takes to get you behind the wheel...and on the road.

Point 3 Find me the supporting data from comapnies other than the Big 5 freight haulers....Not just claims made by "any" company. I can refute those claims with the termination of 125+ "safe" drivers, ALL with 1 million plus SAFE miles under their belts (they have the awards and DMV reports supporting them). All from one company....Said company is held in very high regard by members on this board.

Point 4 While I agree totally with this statement. The reality is, I am the only one in the entire company (past) who really cares whether my family has food on the table this week. Refusing to move will not fill empty stomachs. And reporting said company, will not insure my family has food or anything else while it is being "investigated" and I am hunting a new job. With a bad DAC report, because of my whistle blowing.

With all that said.... I have to concede the arguement to you. Simply because what you say is true. I now work with a company, who actually cares. They will not, and have not, pushed me at any time. If I call them, and tell them I can not legally make the run. They ask me for a best guess ETA, and reschedule my load. This very item itself, has been a win-win situation for both of us. I give them a 110% at all times. And I feel like they give the same in return.

Bottom Line... Until EVERY driver refuses to move unless legal, you will see companies forcing them out of the job, and into another equally bad job. Or even worse, a fatality accident.

 

I always 'round off' in MY favor---occasionally, if 'safe' may leave a couple of mins early---not a practice of mine!!

 

I drove for one company that would wait till 5PM to dispatch you for a 800 mile trip to be due the next morning at 8AM. I use to jump and go. Later I learn to say Sorry, should have left earlier with that to get there on time.

Did I suffer cause of the fact I started to say No? No I started to get better runs instead. In other words I lost going back and forth to NJ twice a week and went out West much more, Longer runs and less stressful Highways of the Northern States.

Joethemechanic Comments

Joe,

I been reading these forums for a while, and I enjoy your post and they are very informational. But in these post here I have to disagree.

Local Runs: Some people like them some do not. You like them Good for you, But I would Hate them, That's me. For you it a Profitable Business, for me it would not be. If I were to do Local type of Work, or Short haul, I would have to deadhead more than most loads are going. Losing money for low pay. It works for you So that great for you.

Business vrs Lifestyle:Yes it is a Business and it is also a Life Style. It does alter the way you live. You drive a truck, not a car in your Job. You do not work 9 to 5. That a Life Style. You make your money cause you Drive, That's a Life Style, other people make their money Pushing a pencil or punch keys on a keyboard, that's a Life style. You mentioned Drivers with all the Chrome and Chicken Lights. Not all Drivers has that on their trucks. More to maintain, so I would not. But I do enjoy going cross Country. Does that make me an Idiot? No means I have a different set of mind, I enjoy something different part of Trucking than you.

That is the problem with the trucking industry, too many of these "trucking lifestyle" idiots, and the whole "get lotsa miles" mentality. In business the goal is to "get lotsa dollars" In which type of Trucking your in, your looking at the Hours. Where the over the road Driver is looking at the miles, they both equals Money.

So bottom line, cause a Driver prefers to drive Coast to Coast does not makes him an Idiot, nor cause you prefer to stay close to Home make you one. It's just the Choice people make to do. Some people like to live in Cities such as NYC, Some would prefer to stay as far away as they can from there. Are they Idiots? No..

 

Somewhere in all this bad trucker / good trucker debate on our logging habits, we have all failed to recognize one huge fact, and several smaller ones.

Many, if not all of us have a very good work ethic, and are here for the money. I would say "lifestyle" aka "I love this job and the freedom it allows me", but that requires money We all want to log 100% legal, many of us do (to a point). Personal safety, and money are those points.

I would stay out for months on end if I were single, I used too. But I don't do it any more, that is my choice. We all make those life changing choices, wife/husband, kids, house, car, vacation...the list goes on and on.

And once we make those choices, we must support those choices by whatever means needed. Even if...god forbid, it requires fudging our log books a tad. Even if it means you have to quit driving.

The common worker in the U.S. won't miss an hour off his paycheck. Unless he gets fired for that tardiness. While many truckers will miss a complete day of running, caused by being an hour late at some customers that refuse to unload that day, and force a new delivary date/time, 24 hrs later. Can you say Wal-Mart

Anyone on this board, who claims to run 100% legal at all times.

A. Does not drive a truck. B. Never delivered a load in their life. or C. Has never ran solo a day in their life.

Receivers will not allow you to sit in their dock until you complete your 10 hr break, if you run out of hours before unloaded.

Smokey bear will not allow you to simply pull to the shoulder, and go to bed. They will make you move, and tell you to plan better next time. Even the best of planning can force you to shut down 3-4 hours sooner than actually needed, depending on where you are at that time. Read sat in traffic for 7-8 hours waiting for an accident to be cleaned up.

No company...I repeat NO COMPANY will allow you to take a break at a customer if you run out of hours at sign in (15 minutes before your appointment)....unless that freight is off that truck!!! PERIOD !!

I can hear the arguements now. But you know as I do, it is illegal for you to go out to that truck, pull through the gate, and back it in the door. Even if the customer allows you to take a 10 break in the door. You are physically driving that truck...period. Which requires logging. However, exceptions can be made.

If I run out of hours. I will log the "overage" and note the violation on the "comment" section. I've never received a ticket when this was done, and the break made good. And yes, it has been seen by a DOT officer.

Fortunately, I have always been good at planning trips. So I rarely run into problems, unless the "boneheaded load planners" failed to see the situation for what it was. X number of miles, leaving you X amount of time to get to a truck stop after empty/loaded.

Bottom line: We've all done it. We will all continue to do it. It's the nature of the beast. What makes the differance? Those who choose to run and run and run...illegal. Just like the police officer who shot an innocent by stander, we all make choices that can kill someone. We don't want too. It just happens. It's called life.

 

A parallel can be drawn from the debate over carrying a gun in the truck. And I'm not advocating carrying a gun in the truck. This is just a hypothetical situation.

Premise) Whereas, people driving personal vehicles are less likely to be involved in an accident because they drive fewer miles. But they could be thrown in jail for hitting and killing a pedestrian or bicyclist if it's their fault with no logs involved. Since truck drivers log thousands of miles a month, they are more likely to be involved in some fatal accident, so should always log legal to decrease the liability.

Example 2.) Because of the many high-crime areas truckers have to do business in, they are more likely to be robbed at gunpoint or shot than someone who drives to work and home everyday. Driver A does not carry a gun in his truck because it violates many rules and laws. Driver A is shot and killed after parking in an industrial area because the truck stop was full. He just got out to pee and didn't have enough money to satisfy the robber. When he got back in the truck to get his wallet, he could have grabbed his gun if he had one. He followed the rules and laws but he was killed.

Example 3.) Driver B does not always log legally. He tries, but sometimes he can't get home or make a delivery on time so he logs the miles driven instead of the actual time. This could have been due to traffic or getting stuck at a shppr/rcvr. One day a car cuts him off and slams on the brakes which kills the person in the car. Or, the truck driver swerves off the road, rolls, and dies. Driver B. was not following the rules and laws.

In Example 2., you have a driver who followed the rules and yet paid with his life. In Example 3., you have a driver who did not follow the rules and ended up in jail or dead.

You could say that the likelihood of being involved in an accident where someone is killed, is greater than the possibility of being robbed and killed at gunpoint. This is probably true. I don't have the statistics. In any event, though, there is always the possibility of always logging legally and still ending up in jail or dead. Even if you log completely legal, you can still easily go to jail in the event someone gets killed in an accident. Yes, it helps greatly to have legal logs.

But in these examples you have two drivers in separate situations but both involve following rules and laws. One follows the rules and laws, and ends up dead. The other does not follow the rules and laws, and ends up dead. We all weigh the laws of percentages when engaging in certain activities. Simply being on the roads everyday, whether a trucker or not, increases the likelihood of being killed in an accident. Yet people drive everyday.

Logging illegally, increases the likelihood of going to jail in the event of an accident, but drivers log illegally everyday. And I'm not talking about keeping two log books and intentionally deceiving the system. I'm talking about drivers who get stuck in all the situations that have been mentioned in this thread that makes driving 100% legal impossible for most drivers without taking a significant cut in pay or losing their job. The possibility of getting involved in an accident with a fatality is there. But these drivers log legally most of the time. So the likelihood of being involved in an accident when the logs are not legal is less than for those who log illegal all the time.

I would venture to guess, that for such drivers, they are just as likely to get killed in any other aspect of life as they are to getting involved in an accident when their logs are illegal.

In the scenario of the driver who unloaded in the morning and is up all day waiting to get dispatched, and then gets a load at 8pm that has to deliver the next day: For those who say the driver should refuse the load or tell the dispatcher it will have to be delivered later, with all due respect, is ridiculous. Just the same as telling your dispatcher you will have to shut down when you're an hour from delivery because you ran out of hours in traffic. You do these things and you will be lucky to get 1500-2000 miles a week and most companies will fire you. I'm not forced into these circumstances at the company I'm at now, but I worked in many situations that were like this for other companies.

For those logging administrators, and safety employees on this thread, I understand you will always say do it 100% legal 100% of the time. This is your job, and you must say this. I and most drivers understand. But I think we all also know what the reality is.

 

Did you ever think about breaking the speed limit? That's illegal. Please don't compare logbooks to dealing drugs. Not in the same ballpark.

You are doing a good job helping everyone here understand the log rules better. I appreciate it. But as many have said, if everyone logged 100% legal all the time the highways would be shutdown and you would be out of a job also.

It doesn't matter how well you plan, when truck stops are full, they are full. You have to keep driving to find a spot. You have to run with the load you are dispatched. It is dispatched according to your hours not the fact that you'll have to find a place to park on the east coast at 11pm.

Tonight, I'm talking right now. I just spent an hour in a truck stop in Winchester, VA when I tried to pull in to get a space. There were so many trucks people couldn't get in or out. This time I still had an hour of driving time, but that's not always the case.

We all should just quit driving and shut down the country.