What would an experienced o/o buy?

The T660 is a good truck and should get decent fuel mileage. Like the others, I would not start out with an $82,000 truck. You can get a very good used truck for under $20,000. The last truck that I bought had an $18,000 in-frame with less than 100,000 miles on the rebuild and I paid less than $21,000 for it. Trucks with that age and comparable spec's were selling from 13,000 to 30,000 at the time. Starting out you need to keep overhead low. I would recommend that if you plan on financing your purchase that you keep payments under $1,000/month. If you plan on paying cash, there are better things you can do with your money than spend $82,000 on a truck. You can find a good deal if you take your time and look around. I saw a truck that appeared to be in good shape the other day for $5,000. It would need to be checked out, but at that price you could afford to do an in-frame and still be ahead of the game.

I think most people starting out as an owner operator tend to get caught up in all the bells and whistles of a truck. Just as a mechanic has tools to work on cars, A truck is only a tool that we use to make a living.

I still own an International that I paid about $18,000 that still looks good and runs strong. It will stay up with anything on the road and averages over 6 mpg. It is still the best truck that I have ever owned including Peterbilt and Kenworth. I have owned both. If you take the skin off any truck they are all pretty much the same. Most have the same engines and drive trains unless you find one with one of the proprietary engines, such as Volvo or Mercedes.

At one time I felt that Peterbilt was the only truck on the road. After owning one, I found that while they are a good truck, there are others that are much more comfortable and cost less to buy. I still like the way a Peterbilt looks, but they could do a better job on the design of their sleeper. International does a much better job. As I stated, I have owned both.

I have not been brand conscious for some time. When I am thinking about buying another truck, I start with the basics that I want or need and then go from there. I like to buy a truck with gearing in the range of 354. It is a good range for pulling and gets decent fuel mileage. I prefer a 10 speed straight shift for most OTR applications. It will likely get better fuel economy than an automatic and cost less to repair when the time comes. I prefer CAT engines, but have owned several with Detroit's. If I found a truck that had everything else that I wanted but a different engine, it would not be a deal breaker for me to switch to Cummins or Detroit. I would stay away from the brand specific engines. Parts availability can be a problem with them and the cost of repairs can be greater. Most any shop can work on CAT, Cummins or Detroit. In this business, time is money. You don't want to be sitting for a week or two waiting on parts.

 

Be careful that "truck advice" does not turn into "tax advice" and you don't even know it. People are giving you advice without understanding your financial situation. What you are getting is based on people who are more concerned with cash flow on a monthly basis than on retained earnings after taxes. If month-to-month cash flow is critical, then looking at a cheaper truck may be warranted. But if you can afford to focus on what you keep after taxes, then you need to talk with a CPA about how depreciation and other items will affect your bottom line. It made a difference in my purchasing decisions.
Now, to your question on trucks. Much is a personal decision. My approach when looking was to figure out what was the best all around and then make informed decisions when not following the "perfect truck" blue print.
For example, an automatic will crush a standard on fuel economy. It is designed to not allow you to drive any other way than economically. Additionally, when buying used, you know that some of the worst driver abuse of a transmission has been eliminated. And with that said, I just couldn't do it. I needed a standard.
But I also would have liked 379. But on that, I could not justify the extra $20k for comparable equipment. Not to mention the comfort difference and fuel economy pulling a van. So I sacrificed style points for comfort and net profit.
On what you are looking at. Still have a lot of friends that are company drivers with many in Cascadias. They love these trucks the first 200K, it is a wash the next 100K and can't believe what starts falling off and breaking over 300K. They are still smooth and quite. Many compare to Volvo 780/880 ride.
Don't know as many people in the Internationals. But the ones I do know like them and feel they are well built.

 

Oh come on Winchester...tell us how you really feel!

 

So at first you say “I am clueless on this issue” then “but let me tell you what my vast experience on this subject has taught me”.
We are living in a different time. 2010 Petterbuilt/KW trucks seem to be racing towards the bottom in terms of interior quality. Not sure what is happening. Likely it is the MPG issues they need to address and going with lighter, cheaper parts plus they are almost a decade behind Volvo on electronics and 5-years behind Freightliner and International.

 

How many speed is the ultrashift? If it is a 13 or 18 I would tend to go for the Cascadia. No one seems to be complaining about the DD15.

However, I had my mpg go up when I uprated my c-15 from 425 to 500 hp, so the 500hp isx has an appeal to me.

My truck turned 1.4 million miles about 4 weeks ago. My next decision point is when Cali EPA kicks in for me (2014). I don't know if I will try to be a Montana runner or retire the truck. I want to skip the DPF generation engines and go into a SCR truck.

 

Bill, !!!

I have only owned peterbilt and kenworth. The only experience I have outside of these is as as follows- Volvo once sent me a voucher for $50 if I would test drive one of their new trucks. So I had time to kill one day and walked into the dealer and said straight up I do not intend to buy a truck, but will test drive one. The salesman let me drive one of the O/O specs trucks a 770?. Anyway before I left the lot I knew my convictions were right and Id never get this far in a Volvo again. I once sat in a prostar and felt like I was sitting in a Volkswagen.

Perhaps you have experience with shaker, prostars, or Volvo. If so and its working for you, then great. You make a lot of good posts here bill, and give good business tips, so I have no doubt you have your head on straight.

But the way I see it is - a guy doesn't have to blow another man to know he will not like it. That's the way I view owning or buying a truck that is solely targeted to mega fleets. No offense with that analogy, its all I could think of at the moment.

 

T660? Emmissions controls? DPF? Ugh, can you say headache? I bought a one owner T600 with 750,000 miles. A clean maintained unit. The motors will last well past a million miles they are designed to, I'm talking the pre '03 engines here. Other stuff wears out with this many miles, so what?, replace the parts. Still beats the hell out of a huge truck note. I just rolled over a million a few weeks ago and see no reason whatsover why it wont get at least another 750,000 miles I have no oil consumption and stay on top of routine maintinence. The key is to find a well maintained truck. I don't trust "fleet maintained" that was always used as a selling point in trucker papers but I always saw it as a red flag.

 

Whatever you decide to buy make sure to check it out thoroughly. I have experience with Peterbilt, Freightliner, KW, International, Ford and Volvo. I am sure that I am forgetting one or more. I put over 77,000 on a Volvo with auto shift. I came out of a Peterbilt 10 speed which got better fuel mileage than the auto shift. Perhaps it was because the Volvo was new and not broken in yet or perhaps it was the auto shift. In any case, I have liked all the trucks that I have owned. Each has their pros and cons. I usually drive a KW these days because the mpg is higher than my International. The International is more comfortable. I have had freinds who won't own anything but a Peterbilt. For the most part, I have had good service out of the trucks that I have owned. The Freightliner and Volvo were not my own trucks. I prefer the International for a number of reasons, but would buy another brand if I felt it was a good value and was well maintained. I might even consider another Peterbilt.

It would be good if you could find a truck that has been owned and driven by an owner operator. It will usually be better spec'd out and probably had better maintenance. Many fleets go way too long on oil changes for my taste.

Before anyone makes a final decision as to the type or brand of truck they want to purchase, I would suggest that you sit down and carefully consider what you plan to do with the truck. In other words, give careful consideration as to the type of freight and traffic lanes you plan on running. A flat top or mid roof works better with flats or open deck trailers. A mid roof or condo might do better if you pull a reefer or van. Both of those choices have to do with wind resistance and fuel economy.

I got over all the chrome and long hoods a long time ago. I still like them, but from a business stand point, it makes more sense to buy something that is more aerodynamic. An aerodynamic truck will usually get better fuel economy and you can get into one for less than one of the hoods. Those who love the hoods will argue that they hold their value more, which may be true, but when you run the numbers it makes more sense to buy the aero truck. Having said that, you are the one who will be paying for the truck. You may as well buy something that will be comfortable and that you enjoy driving. I would spend some time visiting dealerships and driving different brands of trucks. Make mental notes of what you like or dislike about each brand. Some brands have different floor plans or layouts, especially in the sleeper. I don't care for the layout of some of the Prostars. The Peterbilt and KW are not as efficient as they should be with their closets and waste a lot of space. Freightliners do a good job of laying out their sleepers, but tend to rattle a bit more than some of the other brands. International can have a firmer ride but does a good job of designing comfort into their sleepers for the drivers.

None of the trucks will ride as good without a trailer, so you should keep that in mind when you are test driving these trucks. A longer wheelbase will usually have a better ride if you choose a hood. I would look for a 260" wheelbase if you go with a hood. Some of the aero trucks will be about 230" wheelbase, but have a good ride. You won't find a better riding truck than the Volvo.

For me, it is more about what makes good business sense rather that what I will look good driving. Who cares?! The hoods are a little easier to get to engine components, but they are a bit tricky getting around tight parking lots or some of the old northeastern cities. Everyone has their preference. If it were me starting out I would probably go with either a Freightliner or International. Both will be comfortable and you can get into either for a lower capital investment than some of the other brands. I am not a fan of Freightliner, but they have proven themselves over the years. I have a friend who loves his Century. The bottom line is what will make you the most money. Take all the hyperbole out of the equation and if you are going into this to make money then you need to decide which truck will allow you to get into the business for the least capital investment, have an acceptable level of comfort and have the least cost of maintenance. The last item will be very dependent on how the truck was maintained prior to your buying it and how well you take care of the maintenance once you make the purchase. Regardless of which brand you choose, it takes a lot of money to properly maintain class 8 trucks.

 

No offense, you actually got me laughing my ### off.
More jabbing with all the people providing advice based on opinions. Personally, you have several more years of the Cascadia and new Prostar being on the market before we can get a true cost of ownership.
When you are driving the truck you have to understand that this is a business about trade-offs. When looking at trucks going up to ’06, the Century has the lowest cost of ownership per mile. I drove a ’06 Century for 300,000 miles. I could have bought one of these cheaper than my Volvo. But the price difference in resale will stay steady between the two. So at the end of the day, only difference is opportunity cost of the money. My calculations put that at less than $2,000.
Cost Per Mile on my 780 is $.005 more than the Century. But that calculated included the early year issues that have been addressed with the one I bought. Even so, I am one that will pay a little more for a Cadillac ride. And I am not one that will pay more for a worse ride. Some of these trucks that cost 10’s of thousands more than my truck reminded me of growing up and guys lowering their truck and taking suspension out of it. Sure they thought it looked cool but it was almost un-drivable.
I like the looks of a KW and Peterbilt. But have issues with comfort and cost of ownership.

 

BigJohn has it right.I`ll plug Kenworth.Have owned 4 with the newest 10 years old,other 3 were 17 years old plus.All still in fairly good shape with tight dry cabs.Best trucks on the road ever.