hypothetically speaking....bypassing new emmissions

JFAULK, after reading your posts, I agree but also disagree a bit. The OP was asking about a truck with SCR, not a DPF engine truck. You and your buddy should have gained MPG's with a DPF delete and tune for sure, but the new SCR system has been very reliable thus far and the MPG's I have found from guys running them trumps your 6mpg. Most are seeing between 7-8mpg with the trucks stock. You might gain .2mpg by removing the emissions, but the cost would be more than the gain and hassle of removing it. Not to mention that no matter where you live, of the DOT does an inspection and finds that you have removed the emissions, then it is a federal offense and a HUGE fine!!!

That being said, I still removed the convertor from my 2004 truck, so I'm with you on the delete scenario. But I would just leave the 2010+ engines alone.

 

This probly doesn't matter it this point but you say the engine was a 2008 model year and then you proceed to say, You would think after 3 years cummins would have worked the bugs out with that smoking issue but they haven't..........

If the motor was a 2008, that's the very next year after the emissions standards changed. How can you dog Cummins for saying they didn't get the design right after 3 years? We're not talking about what Cummins has NOW, in 2011, we're talking about what they HAD in 2008.

 

Although I really don't care what kind of laws people break, its really none of my business but I guess you and I are like part of the very few that believe the emissions laws apply to everybody, regardless where your at.

Just like what that sticker says at the fuel islands... USLD REQUIRED FOR ALL 2007 AND UP DIESEL ENGINES......

I thought about doing that on a '96 Dakota but since the #### thing had pre and post catalytic converter O2 sensors, I really didn't feel like seeing the CEL staring at me all the time and the dummy sensors for that truck were outrageously expensive so I said the hell with it.

 

Don't take this the wrong way but you say you've been out for 2.5 yrs. I'm taking that as you've only been driving for that long? Nothing wrong with that except I'm assuming you haven't actually driven very many trucks. How can you compare how your truck performs when you have no idea how a pre EPA truck runs? As far as flashing the ECM and being a total animal......your truck has a Detroit.....it will never perform like that. Now a Cat on the other hand. I can pass company trucks up hill all day long with more than twice the load.

What other choice do they have?

Na, I think I'm going to order a new truck and "fix" it. Not going to buy someone else's worn out trucks. One older truck would be fine but I don't want 5 of them.

No, it's that they go out all the time that makes them worthless.

Well since the companies that do these deletes are swamped they're not as great as you may think and you and corneileous seem to be the few worried about it big brother. My new pickup gets 19mpg stock hwy........22 with tune/delete and no longer needs DEF. Oh and the day I picked it up from the dealer the manager asked "how long before the DPF is off?" Oh and it still has a warranty.

 

Lol, well, at least for the most part you're like the only one polite about it when it comes to attacking my experience.

I'm pretty positive you are talking about how long I have been driving truck and not just driving in general so, yes.

For starters, you are correct, I haven't driven very many trucks. So far, the first was I believe a 2005 or 2006 Freightliner century with the 60 series Detroit, the second, a 2009 Freightliner century, not sure what engine but I'm pretty sure it was Detroit, third was a 2005,2006 Kenworth W-900 with the C-15 cat, fourth was a 2006 century with the 60 series Detroit and now this one, 2010 Cascadia with the DD15.

Next, how does my minimal experience have anything to do with this? Would it really make a difference if I said I had 15 years experience? No. Well, maybe on the aspect of being closer to "old school" and it seems like the old school guys and gals only like the old ways and nothing will change their minds about the new way. But still, it doesn't matter if you have 2 years or 20 years. If you are truly capable of making un-clouded and un-influenced observations, it means nothing.

But the fact still remains. The emissions stuff on this truck is not even noticeable except when I've spent too much time idling and I have to do a parked regen but with us running team, we don't spend a lot of time sitting. As I said, the only time this truck has been in the shop for anything related to the emissions system was for the filter change in the DPF.... That's it.

I don't think I totally follow you on this.

I can vouch for that in the KW but it was a twin turbo. Plus, it wasn't governed..... Well, not at the lousy slug-speed that my company sets all the other trucks to. But, with only 5.6 miles per gallon at best, all that fancy, yellow horse power came at an expensive price.

With these guys? Probly Cummins or Mercedes. I dunno, its hard to tell because I highly doubt they will be gettin tired of Detroit any the soon but ya never know.

I can understand that. Well, on the old and worn out trucks.....

No, that's if they go out. I highly, highly doubt that everyone with a post-2007 truck is having problems like you and the others are describing.

You really believe there's just two people worried about gettin slapped with stiff fines for removing EPA required emissions control systems? Wow.... I can tell you right now that most of these larger companies ain't gonna screw with their trucks and risk going bankrupt for paying fines if they get caught.

Well, at this point, whether or not removing emissions components/tunes actually voids your warranty, I really don't care anymore about it but a dealer representative actually condoned you removing the mandatory DPF? Wow. Amazing. Yeah yeah, I know, as I said before a long time ago, nothings illegal till you get caught but still, that just don't seem right.

 

:yes2557:

I'm not sure even what you're saying here. When the law went into effect and when the engines went into production trucks are two different animals. I'm dogging Cummins for a poorly designed POS dpf that they apparently haven't been able to fix issues with in all this time. I'm so glad my '07 2500 has the last of the 5.9 ISB's in it, I'll never buy another pickup again. I'm tired of this argument. The way I see it there's a small minority of independent minded people and a large majority of sheep in a herd. A sign of the Times we live in I guess, there's just fewer and fewer of us who,while we're not criminals or bad people necessarily, we really could give a rats rear end less what government edicts,dictates come down the pike. .. I dunno, enjoy your eco truck and be proud that we can all breathe easier and you're saving the planet or something...

 

Look corneileous I think there are a few things you don't understand.

These deletes are not for people with trucks with no issues. Just like the high HP tunes they're also not for large fleets, authough one company here did over 40 trucks. The fact that you are OTR and running team is probably why yours is basically problem free. Short runs and stop and go traffic, trucks running PTO's or dump trucks at a construction site have WAY more idle time. If you think for a second the emissions components aren't problematic you should ask the engine MFG's and they're sky high warranty claims. There's a reason Cat said screw it and it's not that they don't know how to build an engine.

As far as the EPA goes, those threats have been around since the EPA was started. It's always been illegal to tamper with emissions components, same with copying movies, running over loaded, peeing in public ect. Why is it now such a big deal? Again I could show you two identical trucks and you could crawl all over them and couldn't tell which one was modded, same goes for a creeper cop.

Why does it seem like the guys who have no intention of modding they're trucks (or better yet don't even own them) are always the ones worried about those who choose to? If someone wants to buy a new truck drive it home and set it on fire there would be 500 internet nanny's telling how he shouldn't. Then there are guys like me who don't care what he does with it but I'd ask him to let me have some parts off of it first.

Before you type it again everyone knows it's illegal to do anything to the engine or exhaust (took the wind out of your sail I know)

 

This is so wrong-he should have to buy a particulate filter for the smoke, then it'd be OK.

 

Ok well I mostly just skimmed through this ankle deep bs but I will say. In my experience.... I have on 09 388 with 600 cummins. It "had" a dpf and all that crap and it would seriously chug blue white smoke periodically and I have noticed other trucks doing the same that were same year or newer. I have since deleted DPF and EGR and riding like a champ. You all can argue all you want. I did actually choke on the cost at first but it has been completely worth it.

 

Alright, here's what I was saying....... You said you drove a 2008 Pete 387 with the first year production DPF equipped Cummins motor, correct?

Then, you said you were basically furious with Cummins because they couldn't get it right the first time because it smoked more than it was sposed to at all, then, you proceeded to say what you did about Cummins not gettin it right after 3 years. I said, we were talking about a 2008 Cummins, not a 2011.

If what you are saying was even now, 3 years later, Cummins still can't make a DPF motor that works, then I rest my case because with the way you worded it, you made it sound like Cummins was sposed to design a motor right the first time to meet the new EPA standards and still produce the same-ole reliable motor they always have.

Ok, well, if you are unhappy with the results, then be unhappy with Cummins for making a product that isn't to your standards, not the technology.

Since I've never ridden in one, driven one or even really been around one, I've heard the 6.7's are pretty nice.

Well now hold on a minute, If its so easy to delete all the emissions stuff and supposedly so okay to break the rules, whats stopping you from ever buying a new pickup and making it how you want it instead of how the federal government and the EPA say you should leave it?

Btw, Im not criticising your decision, just very curious since this thread is pretty much all about removing emissions equipment to suit your needs.

Yeah well, so am I because we are getting no where. You guys keep acting like I'm trying to contest your actions when I'm not. I'm not the law. What you or anybody else does is your business. If you wanna tamper with ####e you shouldn't be messing with, be my guest.

Even though I, myself isn't calling any of you criminals, but just so you know, when you break the law, which is what you are doing when you delete this stuff, the law will treat you like one. Probably even more so because its a felony.

But whatever, you guys do what you want. Please don't take this like i am telling you not to.

I will. It's kinda nice not choking on diesel exhaust fumes anymore. Also, its extremely nice to be able to tell these Commiefornia security guards to go get screwed when they bother me about my idling. All I have to do is point out the "certified clean idle" sticker on the door and the "EPA smartway green tractor" sticker.

On a final note, I'm not a believer on this whole greenhouse effect, global warming or the melting of the polar ice caps being related to the emissions but that nasty, brown cloud that hangs over most big cities, especially California, where do you think it came from?