Cabovers

Fargo? What's that?

 

Euro Coe are gaining popularity in aus. But they still do not fit alot of markets over here. They might be fine running down the east coast but you would be hard pressed to find one out west. The biggest problem with them is weight, Because Australia has such stringent axel weight limits.
We only get v8 powered r series scanias in highline cab over here because they are too heavy on the steer axel. A empty v8 r series highline weighs at 6200 odd kg's without a driver on the steer and we can only have 6500kg on the steer so it doesn't leave alot of room for other stuff. Plus they only carry 950L of go juice. All that European technolagy and cumfort comes at a cost
In volvos we can get xxl cabs but then fuel must be limited.
The biggest problem for most though is with all this technolagy there is just more stuff to go wrong and leave you stranded somewhere. At lease with a cummins/cat infront of a roadranger you know you can get it fixed just about anywhere and alot of companies know these trucks and engines and how to fix them. But anything that goes wrong with the euros it's straight to the dealer.
Also cause these trucks are imported they have to be modified over here to meet our demands. But go order a kw or Mack and they are built here for our conditions and exactly to your spec.

 

so tell me

how is that possible that highline started to be used just recently , before there was just few of them ( i know that now scania put it as serial with v8)

also another question is that fuel capacity limited because of weight on front axle or?

i am asking because on 3300mm wheelbase it is possible to fit 400L fuel tank on right and at least 750L on left ( i am not sure is possible to fit 860L on left) so at least 1150L

and 710+320 on 3100mm wheelbase

i was looking that 620 is 6150kg 730 is 6120kg but with 850 of fuel

so how much is bull bar?

 

really Fargo is Chrysler plant in UK, now of course Daimler trucks

 

They have always been here but not popular. Scania had to work really hard to get the weight down on them by removing a lot of stuff like the exhaust stacks and air intakes plus the frames that hold them from behind the cabs, moving the batteries to behind the rear wheels in between the chassis rails and a few other things. Also FUPS (front under-run protection system) became mandatory in AUS in January so that allowed us to go to 6.5 T instead of 6T on the steers before that we had to have permits to run up to 6250kg but they where hard to get. They run 3100wb (front steer to front drive) on them over here but only have (1x500 & 1x350 on the 730hp) & (1x670 + 1x300 on 620hp) plus 75L ad blue on both according to the Scania web site.
The reason for the low fuel is just weight and space. They can't run a longer chassis and bigger fuel capacity as it makes them too heavy and too long.
We also have very strict length laws as well. The overall length of the combination includes the prime mover and we run our trailer lengths in pallet lengths. so a B-double (prime-mover and 2 trailers) in COE should carry 36 pallets, If not you could just run a conventional truck because you have an extra 1165mm of space to play with.
The biggest problem with Euro COE designs and australian laws is the front axel placement. The biggest selling COE design, the Kenworth K series and the Freightliner Argosy both have set forward front axels,
e.g:






This allows KW to run a very large Cab while still not exceeding front axel mass limits also like all KW the Cabs are aluminium, not steel. The axel placement also allows large fuel tanks to be run without increasing front mass too much. Those are 600L tanks on each side.
the downside, they don't turn as tight, and are a bit harder to climb into.


But they have a party trick





This is a Freightliner Argosy.
KW has its own design in testing which you can sort of see how the steps have been designed to open in the above pick, I have seen this and it is great but havn't released it into full production yet as they want to make sure it is 100%, and not pop open driving down the road at 100km like the early argosy's did.

Don't get me wrong Euro COE's are great trucks, but they are not the be all and end all.

Take for example my twin steer kenworth T359. (It is not a cab over this is just for comparison sake) Cummins ISL 9L 400hp, roadranger 9LL (11 speed), it is available with a ultrashift plus 11,13 or 18 speed. tare weight 7550kg.
Scainia twin steer P400 is 9600kg
Volvo FM410 twin steer is over 9000kg.

Big difference, and the KW has all the bells and whistles of the other two.

 

i saw most of AU scanias did have batteries behind cab in vented box and having air intake for it just next to air intake for engine





i know about australian laws i like to fallow trucking in different places around the world


try to check better they are just showing basic specs in sheets , 3300 should be available , since it was fitted to most trucks before scr and now all egr trucks have it ....

many of scanias come with 750L fuel tank on left and 250 or 300L on right on 3300 wheelbase with 2X ad-blue tanks each 80L

not sure about differences in specs but scania should be lighter than volvo

here lightest specs 8x4 scania is well below 9t

 

That may be true for P and G models and even the early R models but latest R series trucks have had these modifications done to try and lighten them to make them competitive.

There may be longer chassis lengths available but in doing so you are making the truck heavier to try and accomadate larger fuel tanks that you can't fill because the truck is to heavy.
I'm no scania expert but obviously you are so I'm not going to argue with you about specs and I'm sure that you could make the scania lighter I was taking the tare of the P series off the web site because I havnt speced or priced one up myself because they are way to heavy to even try.
I know that the Volvo weighs around 9T because a o/o I used to work with had one and that was only a fm9 not a 11L

 

this picture above is from r560 highline redesigned , before and on p/g batteries are down

difference between 3100 and 3300 is very small , but with longer wheelbase less weight of components on front go to rear axles....so this brings some weight more on front.....

just remember old B-double tractors with 2900mm wheelbase , without fup(s) , with 500+350L of fuel , without cube silencer but just one small vertical

and they did have shorter springs on front to put less weight on front .....and v8 was very questionable legal on front axle.....

EDIT: sorry it is r620 from chemcouriers

 

Yes the difference is small but in doing so makes the king pin to rear length too long and over the required 20.6m needed for a 36 pallet b-double. They shortened it so they could meet this market demand. They cant just move the turn table forward either as that puts more weight over the steer.
Here is a picture out of a magazine which interviewed Ian Butler who is scanias product development manager.

You can see the batteries being the rear wheels and no exhust or air cleaner gantry.



Also moving the air cleaners from high up behind the cab to underneath wont please alot of people.

But getting away from just talking aabout scania's, coe designs became very popular in Australia in the last 15 years but recently we are starting to see a shift back to conventional designs.

Also in aus alot of owners turn there trucks over every 5 years, there are alot a reasons for this but the biggest is because of tax, and because euro trucks don't hold there value well over here, ooperators look at the "whole of life cost" of a truck, and this is where the american trucks come out on top.

Why don't euro trucks hold there value? One of the reasons, all the electronics. They do and will stuff up, and they cost big $$$ to fix, also when you add the exuberant price of parts for euro trucks, it puts people off. Plus guys in Australia like driving big trucks with a bonnet up front, and they know how to fix them.

 

hi , i understand things about total length , king pin position and wheelbase as well as 5th wheel position ....generally why they dont put 5th wheel deeper inside trailer this would make distance from cab to trailer shorter and improve fuel economy....

as for 26m b-double if i remember when it was just introduced that they were talking that they are able finally to fit 3.3m wheelbase fups , 1000L of fuel and v8 .....do you think that SCR cat and ad-blue tank make problems with additional weight on front? and that this is reason for 3100?


as for 730 it is 78kg heavier than 620 and 89kg than 500/560......

as for air intake on 730..... hm i think smaller v8 have enough space to fit hose below cab from behind....while 730 is too bulky for that....there is no space around , also see that plate behind cab ....it is there because engine would be unprotected , also you cant get 730 with day cab ...... also just remember how much space is on 12/13L engines behind them/below cab .....it is possible to fit inside air filter or batteries

for batteries behind , i would have nothing against it as long as connecting point for jumping are on accessible place .....and as long is possible to fit trailer hitch on tractor ( on european market you can get batteries on several places including at back of chassis but rear crossmember is very unique and batteries are moved too much back.... and it is not possible to fit trailer hitch



i understand that it is always best to drive something which is most common on market , even on my market scania,volvo is not best choice , it is mercedes or second choice man , but i guess for big companies that running euro truck can earn more money ( for those companies who buy new for old , for companies which chose maintenance contracts, for those who need fleet management, for those who can chose 6x2 for b-double,who need driver training.......and many more services)





now somebody who is reading this last above about driver training maintanance contracts .... can think that this is for sissies and that real trucker should do that like many years ago

now in europe eco optimisation of truck become popular , at first no body believed in this but some companies are getting huge differences ....and now most of new trucks are in this eco optimisation

with just a little care they can save at least 10% and even up to 20%

this include....

-specific tailored vehicle to your need
-longer axle ratio , or very long axle ratio depending on weight and terrain
-driver training
-side skirts , and precise adjusting of roof air deflector
-than include low resistant tires
-in most cases include tire pressure monitoring
-fleet managment
-automated gearbox as serial equipment
-and special maintanance programs to keep vehicle in shape( including wheel aligement)

this is about similar at every manufacturer....

(some manufactures can provide some parts which save additional fuel like man have unique compressor )

so nothing of this is something special and unknown but all together can make vehicle very profitable



so with this high fuel prices , and with your higher fuel consumption ( due weight and speed) i think i would rather chose something with very low operating costs rather than long live truck and exhange it for new every few years




btw i was trying to make p400 similar to aus specs and i get 9245kg with latest rear air suspension (-100kg) without driver, with tools 400L fuel, retarder,14speed opc, day cab cp16 , same wheelbase , air suspension on front , steel rims , with older conti tires ( dont know exact weight of new model)