Have thoughts on what training new drivers to the industry should have?

O.Henry · Dec 22, 2012

When I started I claimed I was a student.I got my CDL,but that does not give me the privilege of changing it to trucker.I will remain a student for years to come.Thank You Very Much!!

EZX1100 · Dec 22, 2012

jgremlin said: ↑

In this business, yeah that's probably a good thing. But not for the reason you would suspect.

If you look at the military, you will find that it isn't unusual at all for students to be trained by instructors who were students themselves only a few months or years earlier. They do it all the time and they are quite successful with it. But there is a very important difference. The military understands that no one is qualified to teach anything to others until that person has been taught how to teach. So they use a very finely tuned program to train instructors in the military method of teaching That method makes heavy use of a very structured program with a specific curriculum, i.e. in this portion of the program x will be taught and it will be taught in this specific way.

The military makes heavy use of this and they are very successful with it. It is not usual for military pilots to be taught how to fly by instructors who didn't know how to fly themselves just a few years earlier. And yet, military pilots are considered to be among best trained and safest in the air.

So it CAN be done. I'm not saying it should be done. But it could be, its not impossible. My point is that right now, in many segments of the industry, there is no requirement for trainers or instructors to understand anything at all about teaching methods. Nothing. In some states, the only requirement to be certified as a CDL driving instructor is to have held a license for a certain amount of time and take a fairly simple written test which anyone who reads the CDL handbook a couple of times could pass.

Many companies, including my company, pick their trainers much the same way. Frank seems like a smart guy, he's been a good employee and he seems pretty knowledgable and responsible so we'll send the new hires out with him so he can show them the ropes. Absolutely no consideration is ever given to whether or not Frank understands anything at all about the methods of teaching. That is something that ought to change IMO.
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gremlin

i think the major flaw in your comparison is that the military is not a for-profit organization
it has central leadership
and it is geared towards success mission, not merely to make the books look good (though i am sure some may debate that point)

whereas the only commonality these mega carriers have is the ATA and a desire for profit

and they make shortcuts that are (legal) in a way, but the industry and the safety of the public is at risk with this maneuvers,. in addition to everytime one of their graduates has an accident, THE REST OF US have to pay the price with more and more enforcement and legislation

spacetrucker88 · Dec 22, 2012

I stlll say this is a job yhat you have to want to do,no amount of schooling or teaching can make you do it.

EZX1100 · Dec 22, 2012

spacetrucker88 said: ↑

I stlll say this is a job yhat you have to want to do,no amount of schooling or teaching can make you do it.
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isnt that true in almost any job?

if you were to stick me in an office and do data entry, no matter what you paid, i would fail within the first week.

jgremlin · Dec 22, 2012

EZX1100 said: ↑

gremlin

i think the major flaw in your comparison is that the military is not a for-profit organization
it has central leadership
and it is geared towards success mission, not merely to make the books look good (though i am sure some may debate that point)
Click to expand...

My comparison isn't flawed at all. Read the post again. Pay particular attention to this part:

So it CAN be done. I'm not saying it should be done.
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I wasn't saying its something that should be done. I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying its something that can be done successfully. Whether its practical or not doesn't matter because that wasn't the point I was making.

My point is there is a very real difference between being qualified to perform a task and being qualified to teach others to perform that task. Having some arbitrary number of years of experience at doing the task doesn't automatically qualify anyone to teach the task.

Irishtrucker · Dec 22, 2012

jgremlin said: ↑

I agree that coaching involves a skill set which is fairly simple to learn. I completely disagree that coaching is analogous to teaching. Coaching is like teaching the same way bird watching is like being a biologist. They both involve a similar focus and skill set, but one is worlds away from the other in terms of the number of people who are actually qualified to pull it off.

We don't need more coaches, we've already got plenty. What we need are teachers. If instructors and trainers were required to have a background in the fundamentals of teaching, the safety record and the turn over rates would improve dramatically in this industry. Which brings us to this:

Actually its pretty easy to believe. All of the big companies base their profit models around having the majority of their driver pool working at the bottom end of the pay scale. In order to do that, you need most of them to quit or get fired before they're with the company long enough to make it very far up the pay scale. Keeping them under educated accomplishes this quite nicely.

Of course it also leads to lots of accident and incident reports. But since most of the big guys self-insure, it all works out.

Which is what I was alluding to in my earlier post. The mega carriers rule this industry. And the mega carriers don't really want drivers who are well trained because that screws up their business model. So the DOT can look at this issue all they like, but the mega carriers have far too much influence to allow any meaningful changes to ever take place on this front.
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The company I just left has lead drivers. This is a job they apply for from within the company and then are trained to do, not sure the length of the course but from talking to one of the guys they go fairly in depth though not to teacher level. All drivers in the company have 2 weeks training on doing the job and have to test out with a lead driver, they then have to have a lead driver ride along with them at 3 months 6 months and 1 year, and then yearly after that no matter their length of employment. They are huge on safety and from looking at their safety stats have very few accidents.

They do local store deliveries so have a different business model than the mega carriers. I agree with your point about the Mega carriers, though would be interesting to see one of them approach the business differently and what effect that would have on their bottom line. Though when all is said and done they are corporations and act accordingly.

On a different note, or maybe the same vein i'm still hearing about the so called driver shortage???

Wargames · Dec 22, 2012

jgremlin said: ↑

I'm going to qualify this by saying I'm quoting you here but my comments may not apply to you directly. When a trainer complains that the those he or she is training 'just don't get it' I think it reflects more on the trainer than on the student. The student isn't supposed to get it at least not when they first show up. Its the trainers job to make them get it. If the student still doesn't get it, the trainer has failed not the student.

Now there are limits to this of course. Obviously we don't all have what it takes to learn to be brain surgeons. But trucking ain't brain surgery. All but the most intellectually challenged should be able to learn it pretty easily. That this isn't the case says a lot about a misconception that is prevalent in this industry. The misconception that anyone who is good at driving will automatically also be good at teaching others to drive.

There are far too many trainers and instructors in this industry who have no earthly idea that being able to train others is a skill which needs to be learned and developed. There is a method to it. Several methods actually. But most trainers don't ever consider that. So when they train someone who 'just doesn't get it' they simply write the student off as being an idiot never once stopping to consider the possibility that if they themselves knew and understood more about the method of teaching than they do, perhaps the student would get it.

I'm not sure any regulation is going to be able to change that, But if a regulation could, I'd be all for it.
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Let me put it in a more easier way they will get it. You dont learn how too drive a commercial vehicle in 5-7 weeks, It takes years, many years, thats why they dont get it. Practice makes perfect. When I learned , the pace was slower, now the mega dirt bags, want you to hurry, hurry, this causes accidents, because they have no experience. The mega carriers dont want you to stay, they make there muney by new students, then get rid of them. With the Snow here, you will see a LOT of accidents, and then the drivers will not find work. Learning how too drive should be a slow process, so the drivers get the feel of handling a big truck, as TIME goes by they will get better and there time running on the road or local will be competitive.

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