CB/10 meter question.

First off as a former military radio op and repair tracking down a radio is not true. when you key up your radio and transmite the signal is outed through the coax into the ant where depending on it gets a boost. shot to the tip in which shatters the up direction and push the signal sideways instead of up. to track someone you would need a #### load of people slowly moving in and finding me talking on my illegal radio......its not like gps. they cant just click and here you are. even if they did have people in place most people use these channels when sitting at a truck stop trying to talk to someone. but than you have 200 other trucks and half bsing on the radio.... second of those people fined those where when the dot had fcc guys at the scales nailing drivers with illegal amps. they could not charge them with operating on reserved channels so they got them for over powered radios.....the biggest move the fcc did was go after pilot. in which they lost. pilot went ahead and pulled 10 meter radios to make life easier and avoid more legal cost down the road....the fcc even went to a cb shop acting like a trucker. told the shop he wanted a big radio with extra channels. they should him a 10 meter and told him it could be changed but they would not do it. the arrested him and he won the case in court since he did not sell him a modded radio nor told him how to....so let them hammies whin and cry......

 

If the FCC lost, then explain why Pilot paid the FCC $90,000 in fines for selling 10 meter radios? I hardly call that losing on the FCC's behalf. Second, I don't think you understand how illegal operators are tracked down.

There's a portion of the 10 meter band that is non voice. Truckers, not knowing much about their export radio, sometimes flip the band switch and wind up on the non voice portion of the 10 meter band and start talking in voice. Hams who are trained in transmitter finding, and most of them retired with a lot of time on their hands, hear these truckers on the non voice segment of the 10 meter band, and then hop in their car and use directional finding equipment to find you on said frequencies.

Once they zero in on you, they'll unhook their radio and still hear you talking all on a frequency that is not reserved for voice - BAM! Pretty much a positive identification at that point. Then they'll turn in your truck number, license number, etc. into the FCC who sends out a warning letter, followed by a fine, to whoever is the rightful owner of the truck. The letter mandates you call the FCC office to discuss the infraction.

Last but not least, radios with "extra channels" are illegal and not certified by the FCC for CB use. I find it hard to believe the FCC was at the scales popping truckers for amps (also illegal on CB) but not export radios.

 

I got no use for people like that. Good job!

 

I have been thinking..........
I think the HAMS (The hunters) should take up deer hunting and fishing. That way they can tell everybody about the deer that was as big as a elk and the fish that was as big as mooby dick. I for one don't believe that they are going around scaring the crap out of grone men truck drivers and having the FCC jump and write letters and impose fines. If they showed up with there car at my place the story would sound like something from sons of anarchy or the sopranos.
O ----I better stop now I am getting all shook up because I think they got my IP address and soon there will be a little smart car with computer mouse on top of it circling my house.

 

Mt. Airy,

They aren't "going around scaring the crap out of grone (btw, it's spelled: g-r-o-w-n) men truck drivers and haveing the FCC jump and write letters and impose fines".

It's pretty simple....licensed amateurs have earned the privilege to talk on the 28 MHz frequencies. The FCC set aside the upper 26 MHz to mid 27 MHz frequencies for truckers and others to use. The FCC also set aside the 28 MHz for the ones who decide to study and become licensed amateurs.

The only reason they make export radios is to get around the rules of "no more than 4 watts of power, and no frequencies outside of the 26.965 to 27.405 citizens band. Also, done so manufacturers can throw on truckers toys such as echo boards.

If the amateurs hear someone on 28 MHz that shouldn't be (and they will know if you are, because licensed amateurs know where they can talk on the 10 M band, and what mode to use), then yes they're going to track you down and turn you in. It's not a threat. It's not meant to make you scared. It's done to protect their turf. It's self policed.

Think of it this way...if someone decided to steal your truck....how would you feel? Surely you wouldn't just sit back and let them do it.

It's simple....does your 10 meter export radio have a frequency indicator? If not, you might want to invest in one. If it does, then if the radio says it's anywhere between "28.000" and "29.700" then don't transmit there. Simple as that. Keep your radio between 26.965 and 27.405...and as long as you aren't bleeding over on someones TV set or telephone, then you're ok.

Hopefully this provides some clarification.

 

I learned to T-hunt originally because it was a fun activity in my ham club. Later, when I got into public safety as a career, it became invaluable for finding downed aircraft and lost hikers who carried PLTs (Personal Locator Transmitters). My agency (back then) had, and still has, statutory authority for all search and rescues within the state of Alaska.

During that time I also owned & operated a commercial two-way shop and community repeater/SMR facility. And, when the FCC made their occasional forays down to my small town from "The Big City" to attempt to locate signals that were interfering with essential services (marine, aircraft VHF, public safety), they knew they were welcome to use my sites/towers (I also owned a two-way radio service company at the time) for a better line-of-sight to lotsa places that they couldn't see from a vehicle on the ground. They got to where they'd only send down one engineer if they knew I'd be available to help generate a signal to create a mix that they were trying to find in a defective transmitter someplace, if it was just an industrial system that was the recipient of the interference.

Mobiles are difficult (but by no means impossible) to track and identify. I used to have an OAR Products receiver, that would show a single bream on a scope, with the receiver at the center, indicating the direction from myself, and the relative length of the beam (within the confines of the scope's size) showed the strength (at my location). I later sold it to buy a decent spectrum analyzer, which could do the same thing when I sync'd it to a steerable antenna array, plus I could use the spec ann for general tuneups in the shop.

There are sound card based transmitter "fingerprinter" cards & software to help identify a specific transmitter on the air, and the evidence from those has helped prove cases in court. The DoD has a *much* fancier and better performing device made by Agilent that works within a few milliseconds of the transmitter being keyed, and can be tied to a DF device as well. Homeland Security is using them now for keeping track of ne'er-do-wells who are a threat to national security. And our present-day military lads/ladies have access to the same technology to help find people with radios who oughtn't have them, especially if they're intent upon doing harm to "the good guys" with them. So the state of the art for military commo equipment may have advanced somewhat since a previous poster was last exposed to RF at work.

So yes, I'm a ham, but frankly I've got better things to do than to try to chase down every interloper who shows up on 28.085 with a voice signal, especially if it comes up from the noise level and fades away again after ten minutes. But I still practice the skill with the local hams, and we get better at it each time we look for one of our own with the low power VHF signal. And some of us are doing it on HF, too; we've got a bunch of people doing HFDF on 80 meters, around 3.750 MHz.

So yeah, it's possible to identify a CB from out of a handful as long as one of the foxhunters can get close. But for the most part, I think most people (including most hams) don't really care what goes on on 11 meters. Besides, the worst thing that anyone can do when they're being jammed or interfered with is to acknowledge the jammer. The *proper* thing to do, if it persists, is assemble the team on a different frequency (or band) and go do a T-hunt, document everything that can be documented, and turn in the info to the folks with the actual teeth.

But a lot of us "hammies" (who really uses that term, anyway?) are also CBrs. I am, but the only way anyone would know when I'm on the CB *might* be because my radio sounds clean and doesn't splatter. Neither do most new radios out of the box, but I make sure of mine cuz I'm also a licensed commercial tech.

The rest of it is all really just posturing. Even some hams are guilty of being Radio Rambos.

73 & Merry Christmas / Chappy Chanukkah / Kwaint Kwanzaa / <insert other seasonal greeting here>

 

Festivus

 

As pointed out by several people, the ways by which people CAN be found is extraordinary! Remember: CB radio is a low-tech toy while two way radio has advanced far beyond the 1958 technology of a CB! And the computer-based (and others) means with which to track signals is astounding by comparision. IF you, sir, were, indeed, trained in radio (and I won't question your abilities), you would know of the most simple of tracking techniques: triangulation. It is also, basically, how an aircraft VOR works. By using 3 beam antennas, each tracking station takes a bearing on the offending signal out to infinity, drawing it on a map. Then the trackers meet up to compare notes, transferring their readings to a "master" map. Where the 3 lines cross, this is the source of the offending signal. Then the trackers go mobile with portable tracking equipment. again taking bearings. By "surrounding" the incoming signal, the trackers can then close in on the offender. For off-and-on offenders, a series of readings are taken and the findings recorded in a log. A pattern is established., and a "M. O" (modus operandi) consisting of times the signals are heard, whether there is a pattern, and/or the habits discovered over a period of time. All this is logged and taken into consideration as the trackers 'close in' on the naughty station. The offender WILL be found, and tho slow at times, they WILL be found out. These days with the computer technologies, and others, signals can be tracked in fractions of minutes.....sometimes MILES from the offending station and in the comfort of an office and without leaving any warm confines!


As noted, Pilot DID pay $90,000 and the numbers of trucking companies cited for their drivers' operations on 10 Meters is public record. They include Pilot, of course, other CB shops, UPS, Fed EX, R & L Carriers, and other well-known carriers.

CB operators have 40 channels allotted for their use. It requires no paper license to operate on 11 Meters, and most of those channels go begging for lack of use. Yet some CBers feel that they somehow have a "right" to something "extra", some sort of "special privilege" to simply TAKE that which doesn't belong to them. Then they are shocked when the rightful users turn them in for committing an illegal act, or FCC comes after them. It is just as wrong as it is to go into someone's house and take a ham out of the fridge without permission. Those frequencies do NOT belong to them anymore than 460 MHZ where many public safety agencies operate. Ten meters is ASSIGNED to the Amateur Service by US law and International Treaty. Unlicensed operators are not to GO there anymore than they are to go onto 460 MHZ. Start yapping on the local police channel, they WILL complain AND come looking for you. Go onto the gas company's service frequency, they will complain, then come looking (or get local hams to help) for you. Go into the amateur frequencies, they will complain AND come looking for you. ALL will turn you into the Feds.

Got a so-called "10 Meter" radio? Simply make sure you are ON the CB band, and no one is likely to care.


GF

 

Gadfly took it easy on you, good thing he didn't get worked up.

 

my .02: back in the mid 70's, there were a bunch of us who used to meet in Davis, CA for "rabbit hunts" just about every friday or saturday night. Even had one kid(CAP) who would show up occasionally with his Cessna 152. Several had homemade DF's, and my hunt partner had a 102 on a hitch mount. We used a 30sec key rule, and the longest hunt I recall was about 45 minutes. Shortest was the 152 and another kid on the ground teamed the rabbit inside of 5 minutes. And none of us were pros, or using anything fancier than we could put together between a couple of beers. Although we left the beer home when Davis PD would come out and run rabbit for us.