Is anybody still doing a 10-15K oil change?

I do mine every 10-12,000... 6NZ Cat with 1.6 million on the clock and never been opened up, and never left me stranded...

 

I go through the trucks weekly checking them over, greasing what's needed. We don't run long haul, only about 50k/year per truck but our trucks are all over 600k miles. Lots of little things happen in a short time.

When it comes to oil changes though, I am a believer in extending them to safe levels. I do a lot of UOA's on all of our equipment to determine a safe level. I then check up on them often or at every change. Most I can get extended out quite a ways.

The whole "cheap insurance" arguement does not always pencil out. Its more of a warm and fuzzy feeling. I had this discussion with another farmer the other day. He was set on the old school 100hr oil changes. Cummins reccomends 250hrs on the N14 in our feed truck. I have it extended to 1000hrs without a worry, running cheap $8 house blend oil. If you figure the service life of 20,000hrs or so and add up what he would spend on oil changes in that 20,000hrs versus what I would spend, it came out around $21,000 that I would save. That more than pays for an overhaul that both of us would be looking at around the 20,000hr mark anyway. Even if I needed to overhaul at 18,000 and he needed to at 28,000, Financially I would be ahead.

You can spend all the money in the world to prolong the life of parts, but theres a point where you can spend too much for what the return is. Especially on a part that will wear out no matter what at one point. I like to keep everything maintained well, but I do believe in over maintenance.

 

Yeah, I never have understood the "cheap insurance" argument either. Why not change the oil weekly, or even after every run if it is only "cheap insurance"? Who decided 10-15K was the industry standard miles to still comply with the "cheap insurance" mantra. Probably the same folks who decided that 3000 miles was the max to change the oil in an auto. You know, they guys who's job is making a living off of oil changes. I know it isn't CAT, Cummins, or Detroit. CAT, for instance, shows that every engine since the 3406E, that is getting 6+ mpg and not hauling more than 80K gross, the recommended oil change interval is 25,000 miles. Cummins has had a 25,000 mile or greater for quite some time. Detroit has had a 25,000 on the Series 60 since DDEC V. The engines being built now have some real wild oil change recommendations that cause even my rear end to pucker up. Since the introduction of CI-4+ engine oil standard, every manufacturer took their oil change interval requirements out longer. We went past that quite some time ago to CJ-4. But God forbid we actually use the manual and see what the guys who build and test the engines say about when to change the oil. Some habits sure die hard.

I will readily concede that there are applications that do require an oil change at 10-15K, or even less. Heavy haul, extreme operating environments, etc. But how would anyone know unless they are doing regular oil sampling? And if they are, they might find they could go longer on the oil changes also. Oh well, it is just cheap insurance, right? That is until one adds up the money spent to do unnecessary oil changes at 10,000 miles compared to 25,000 mile intervals over the life of the engine. Ouch!

 

And all this came from a guy who lost his engine prematurely due extended oil drains - funny! hahahahahaha

 

I don't know his back story. But there is a cost associated with everything. Who ever said you have to make it to a million miles or you did something wrong.

Lets take some numbers into the scenario here. I will talk from my experience with the N14 435 in our 96 T800. The truck had 700,000 when we bought it to mount a feed mixer on it. Mixing feed is a terrible job for a truck. It sits at a high idle mixing feed in nothing but a cloud of dust. You can't see the truck most of the time. Doesn't see many miles. Cummins reccommends 250hr oil changes. UOA's have shown me that I can safely go out to 1,000hr intervals which I have done. We use a very cheap house blend oil at $8 per gallon. It seems most on here like rotella or Delo. I like Delo myself and will be trying it shortly to see if I can go longer and because I feel it is a better oil. From a quick search it seems these tend to average around $13-20. For easy math lets say $16.

With the cost of oil, filter and some labor I figure it costs us at least $120 to change the oil in that truck. If we talk in hours, 25,000hrs is what many say is the max life of the engine which also generally equates to around a million miles on an OTR truck.

The arguement is between doing the OEM reccommend intervals from the 90s using mostly decent oils, versus the people who go long intervals either with or without a premium lube. The 250hr reccommendation was at a time when Cummins reccommeded 12,000-15,000 miles as well, so it is on par. With the $16 oil and the same math I used for my price it will cost you $200 to change your oil.

So every 1000hrs I will spend $120 and you will spend $800. Lets say hypothetically it costs $20,000 to overhaul an N14. Lets assume 25,000hrs to be the max life. You will achieve this with your intervals. In 25,000hrs time, you will have spent exactly $20,000 on oil changes alone. In that same amount of time if I made it to 25,000hrs I would have spent only $3,000. Now comes the million dollar question. At what point does my extended oil change intervals begin to look profitable. We both know that the engine will have to be overhauled sometime in its life, so the $20,000 is an expense we will both have to pay, the question is who will pay less to get there. With a savings of $17,000 I could nearly afford to have the engine need an overhaul at 500,000miles (12,500hrs) then need another one at 1,000,000. However I am confident it would last longer than that. Lets say it does 700,000(17,500hrs). I overhaul it and run it to 1,200,000 lets say then trade it since its getting old. You also run your truck to 1,200,000.

Heres what the costs look like in that 1,200,000 miles which would be 30,000hrs.

Me: Oil Changes: $3,600. Overhaul: $20,000. Total: $23,600

You: Oil Changes: $24,000. Overhaul: $20,000. Total: $44,000

Me Running You Oil: Oil Changes: $6,000. Overhaul: $20,000. Total:$26,000

You Running My Oil: Oil Changes: $14,400. Overhaul: $20,000. Total:$34,400

I saved $20,400 using my practices over yours. Even though my engine wore out sooner, the fact remains we both had to pay for an overhaul at one point, you just spent all your money on oil changed to push the overhaul out further.

Now this is all hypothetical. In the real world your engine could even fail before mine, but I would be they would both be very close in life. I do not run the OCI's past any point where they would start causing wear. If wear shows up I change it.

If neither of us ever ran the truck until it needed an overhaul, you would have really looked bad on paper.


I am not saying any one way is wrong. Just hope it opens some peoples eyes to the fact that if you run the truck to the point it needs an overhaul anyways, where do you think you are coming out ahead with premature oil changes?

In addition to the fact you really have no idea when the oil needs to be changed without an analysis.

A few years ago they said change the oil in tractors every 100hrs. Some said 250hrs. Many farmers to this day do 100hr oil change intervals. Heck thats a weeks worth of work for some of ours. The OEMs are now all over 500hr intervals.

3,000 mile oil change for a car. Gm has 7,500 miles listed as the recommended interval for the Duramax on regular oil. I just got a report back today on my Fiances V6 mustang. 7,300 miles on plain 5w30. It was showing no signs of slowing down and the oil had a lot of life left, they recommended 10,000 miles.

Look at the 3,000 mile oil change. Many people own their vehicles to 150,000 miles now. Lets say one person follows the 3,000 and the other do 10,000 mile changes. Oil change costs $30 lets say. At 150,000 miles the 3,000 mile car spent $1,500 on oil changes, the 10,000 mile car spent only $450. Who's engine died sooner? Neither, both would easily make it there with no issues.


Good maintenance is key. But knowledge is power, sample and use it to your advantage. The money you save and knowledge you gain is priceless.

 

Some people change oil, some trucks. Some people can't spend money, some can't make it. But if you think driving big rig is anything like driving your fiance car - your best bet is ask her to let you drive it and forget about trucks, you are not gonna make it in trucking.

 

Whoa, how did I imply her car was like a truck? I used it as an example as the 3,000 mile oil change for autos is what the 15,000 mile oil change is for trucks and the 100-250hr oil change for tractors.

My examples were hypothetically speaking if the engine were to wear our prematurely, however it would not wear out much earlier. You can't just go out and decide to do a 40,000 mile oil change without monitoring what is actually going on with the oil and the engine. I am only saying that with proper sampling and monitoring, you can really save some cash at the end of the day. I'd be curious to see what a lot of the bigger fleets run for intervals.

I don't go into it with the mentality of I can afford to replace the truck because I saved money on oil. No. I like to take care of things.

I am not what many would call a trucker. Only have to drive every once and awhile, the rest of the guys handle it on the regular days. I manage the shop and fleet for our dairy farm. With 1,200 cows to take care of, theres a lot of equipment to maintain. I think that is something else I should point out. Its a little different when its your own truck and its the only one. But when you can implement a good program across the board for a fleet, the savings can really start to add up exponentially.

My policy on fluid intervals is pretty simple. If it's under warranty it gets the OEM's reccommended intervals. On some of our equipment I will use the OEM filters and fluids (other than engine oil) as well just to reduce potential hassles from them in the future. One of our newest tractors wants the hydraulic oil changed at 1200hrs. Thats nuts, its nowhere near bad. Our Volvo loader reccommends 4,000hrs. Cat believes is UOA's but they say the Hydro will go 6,000-9,000hrs. However that tractor that wanted the 1,200hr interval has been a problem child since day one and the company has been a pain to deal with, so I follow that schedule very closely.

If a machine is out of warranty I will sample the oil at the OEM's reccommend interval. Depending on what that sample says, I will then choose when to sample again. That process will continue until the maximum is reached. Lets say the OEM says 250hrs and its a machine that runs 200+hrs per month. I'll sample at 250hrs. If its really clean, then I'll double it to 500. Still clean go to 750. Still good then 900. Still clean then 1000. And the process will continue so I can see how far it can go. Lets say it ends up at 1500hrs. If it takes over 2 years to put that many hours on I will just change at 1000hrs and send a sample in to confirm things are going good. If it gets that many hours in a short period of time however, I'll wait until 1000hrs to send the first sample in.

If I don't have the time to do the above with a machine I just revert to OEM specs.


You can just follow OEM specs all day and that is perfectly fine. Some people prefer the easy route and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people do well by just taking the easy route. However, micro-managing things such as maintenance, can allow you to reduce problems, and reduce costs which gives you more money in the bank to invest into something that will make you money and not go down the drain.

Many ways to skin a cat.

 

How? It as about oil change intervals which is what weve ben talking about.