Empty Running out of Columbus OH Market

Get out of the business now, then. Save yourself the headache and sign on with a mega carrier. You obviously can't do the business side of things.

This isn't sales or customer service. This is negotiating a contract. One that has many variables and subject to the terms and conditions hammered out between two parties. Everything is on the table when you call a broker to discuss possibly hauling their load. From pick up times, to pallet count, weight, number of stops, whether it's a floor or palletized load, etc. The number of days to delivery. The appointment for delivery. Etc. INCLUDING the rate. The most important part. This is how much YOU want to haul it for. You're offering YOUR service to them. You are NOT soliciting them. By posting it on the board, they are saying 'we have a load and we're requesting carriers to contact US'.

When you call, if they give you a rate, tell them what YOU will haul it for. If it's too much and they don't want to budge, just thank them and move on. If they're up for negotiation, see what it's worth to you. Maybe you'll slide a little. Maybe they'll slide a little. Maybe you'll reach an impasse. But, I've walked away from negotations many times because I didn't get my rate only to be called back an hour or so later asking if my truck was still available and whether I'd still want to do the load for MY rate.

True, trucks in/out of a market can dictate the spot market. But only on spot rates. Nogales AZ is a prime example. Produce HAS to move, and the less trucks available, the higher it will go. A lot of the freight you'll looking at is actually contract freight. A broker or carrier may have a huge contract, and has to move it for such-and-such a rate (or else pass it on to the next company). There's not a ton of wiggle room. Sometimes brokers clean up during a slow season, and break even during the busy season. It just depends.

You're not the only trucker. Even in the highest outbound market, you still are competing with other companies for that very same load. If there's 500 loads and 400 trucks aren't going to 'band together' to push up rates. They're going to start snapping up that available freight. Going for what's best, or positions them best, or most economical, etc. Soon, as the number of available loads dwindles, the remaining freight will either sit there (possible, since you haul a dry van and unless time sensitive, it doesn't expire), or the price moves up a bit. However, you have to decide where you want to stand. You've chosen the fetal position.

AT, I don't know whether this is a very elaborate rouse, or whether this is really how you're approaching the issue. The fact you're not broke yet astounds me, otherwise.

Every time you deal with a load, it's a negotiation. Even brokers I deal with weekly still result in some negotiation. Some loads I've hauled many times. And yet I've still gotten movement on the rates. Could be a variety of factors that affect it. Part of it is, they know that with me, I do what I say and they can depend on me. So, maybe they're more lenient with the rate because I'm worth it to them than the unknown of someone else. Either way. I get a little extra out of the load.

Secondly, stop using that rate index to determine what YOU want to haul a load at. I've gotten loads WAY above what that rate index says they should go for. I got $2/mi out of NJ to Louisiana on a dry load. Something the 'rate index' said was near impossible. I've gotten over $5 from VA to PA when the rate index was about 2.50.

You tell them what you want to haul the load for. That's your proposition. I had a broker yesterday offer a load for $1800 for a five stop load. I told them that wasn't enough and asked for my rate. I figured what I wanted to do it for, the number of days on it, the additional stops and time waiting, etc, and added a bonus for having to handle possible fallout of one drop delays the others, and asked for $2850. I was politely declined that they didn't have 'that much in it'. So be it. I really didn't want to do that unless it paid well. So, instead, I'm doing a $1250 load for 460 miles. Also, a dry load.

I'm doing pretty well. My YTD average is just shy of $1.00/mi profit. Mostly because I've already taken off over 30 days and many days just stopping at the house or relatives. I'm pretty happy with that total. And given your ranting, I know you're nowhere close to company driver pay.

First, this isn't a persecution. This is business. You have to understand your adversary if you want to know how to succeed. And you have to understand where you do benefit from a broker. Instead of door-to-door solicitation of customers, they have the contacts and work as the intermediary. And, if they get stiffed by a company going under, they're still obligated to pay you. So, instead of screening hundreds or thousands of customers, you only need to screen the broker once.

Praying to god to smite your enemies is not exactly the most noble thing to do.

You think those are the only 'hot markets'? ANY market can get hot. Any market can cool off. You just have to A) Know where to look. B) Know what you're looking for when you find it. And C) Know how to negotiate your price without giving away the fact you're desperate for anything resembling a profit.

 

Sly fox,

You sound like you have a good bit of experience as an O/O. I have been a company driver for a little over 5 years now, no accidents or tickets. I have been doing a lot of research into buying a truck and trailer and going out on my own. From my perspective the hairiest thing about this business seems to be dealing with brokers and getting good paying loads. If I read your post right, the best thing for a new o/o to do when starting out is to establish that he is a reliable, safe driver who delivers on time, as well as sticking to your guns and not running cheap freight. Correct me if I am wrong, but if you put yourself out there as a cheap driver the only brokers who are going to contact you are the seedy ones trying to get rid of their loads quickly by dumping them on suckers who will run for the price of fuel. You are doubly screwed when you do this because you will only be dealing with the low-lifes in the business because any reputable broker will be willing to pay more, but only to responsible drivers (good negotiators).

I know i rambled a bit in this, but is my logic sound about how the freight brokerage business operates?

 

Being dependable, reliable, safe - that stuff is important but there are many drivers out there doing those things right now, yet they complain about cheap freight and still can't get a rate. If you have no understanding of freight being a punctual, safe driver - sorry that just ain't gonna guarantee profitable rates. You have to know what has money in it then have the stones and wits to set out demanding higher rates. You have to haul loads that others don't want to bother with due to ridiculous, silly limitations they self impose. When things change you have to move on and seek other avenues. You have to deal with these brokers in a confident manner they can hear your weaknesses and they will never give you a rate. Having a good understanding of much of the freight on your regular lanes gives you enough insight at times to smack one of them down and set them right on your rate. It's instinctive, seat of the pants, you need to know your numbers and be able to quickly know what you need at a moments notice on anything. If you waste time on the phone dilly dallying you're perceived as someone who can be bowled over. You need to get important load details but you don't waver or screw around when money is the topic. You must be willing to say no. It's the easiest word to say. You'll say it many times but can't let it beat you down. You need to understand you don't need any given load out here. It takes patience and time, you will learn things every day to improve your tactics if you can survive.

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As rollin coal mentions, there's a lot of us out here that are safe, dependable, and communicative drivers moving freight. So, we're still in a competition. But, if you're not, then you become a problem. You get crap. And, don't take loads that can't legally be done. They'll know you're doing it, and will put you in the 'we can get him to do anything' bin.

Dealing with brokers is, by far, the most important, and yet misunderstand portion of being a true O/O. Like the Matrix, nobody can be told what the contacting brokers will be like, UNTIL you have to do it. If you're reasonably intelligent, can hold your own in a negotiation, and don't give in below YOUR bottom price for that route/load/etc, you should be fine.

It's really not as tough as people have touted it to be. I had put off getting my own authority for years because of the 'great unknown'. That may have made me more determined to do it right, I don't know.

But, the other thing you have to remember is: most of the freight being moved out here never sees a load board. Find an in. Deal with a broker, talk to them. See what other freight they run. Is it regular, intermittent or a one-time thing. Keep in touch with them when you know you're going to an area where their freight tends to be. And don't take it for less than you want. Be cordial about it. They may try to see 'your bottom price' by slowly lowering what they'll pay. Just decline and say that it's not enough. But, do contact them. It's networking. If they know your price, and you let them know in advance, they may have access to more freight than they usually book because now they think they have an easy deal passing it on to you. This also gives you the ability to get future loads quicker, and less 'unknown' of contacting just anybody on a load board.

I have two main brokers I deal with. Then there's a few that are very infrequent, and then there's TQL as usually a last resort. But, I don't do them unless it's my rate. $1400 out of NJ on 700 miles type thing. If the broker knows you don't HAVE to have his load, it's hard for him to negotiate from a position of power. He has to decide whether he wants to let you slip away, and hope the next caller, or next, etc will do the load for his rate. Or just make the deal, get it over with, take what margin his has, and call it a day.

And lastly, don't shoehorn yourself into one run. I inadvertently did that this week. My one regular broker told me had loads available out of MA, and he moves them for a decent price. I found a landstar load going to MA that paid a little less than I usually go to MA for (straight shot, no overnight out of PA). But, I did go below my usual, which I kicked myself for (it still was a good price for a 6 hour run). Problem, though, was the load that WAS coming out of MA wasn't paying the $1.80-$2.00/mi I was used to. Instead, it's right around $1.50. Which is my bare minimum from a bad market to a good market. Since I had committed to the previous load, I now felt I HAD to take this load, or sit until Monday in MA, or deadhead out to be ready Monday in Ohio for a better load. So, I booked it. Not thrilled with it.

Just one of those 'live and learn' moments.

 

It's not difficult but I've said it before and will say it many times again surely. If you have little or no experience with freight you are at a huge disadvantage. Also, and this is something you refine over time, but your previous experience gives you general guidelines - you need to be familiar with what freight is out there in your markets. And push aggressive to see how far you can go on that stuff to get a good feel for going rates. There is nothing worse than going to an unfamiliar area without a clue about possibilities, but this takes time to hone. There's nothing a broker loves more than a carrier unfamiliar with an area, inquiring about a short haul he has trouble covering with local area trucks, cause they know what the load entails and how to price it accordingly - while you unwittingly will likely book it at a very low rate.. See it a lot, you know what, have at it. I've ran into other o/o who haul a lot of the same freight I do, that is sometimes useful for getting more rate info. Understand how to say no and learn your markets. If you're focussing on chasing a rate willy nilly to random areas you will have a tough time learning specifics about any one area. Brokers prey on those kind. And also, obviously owners who base where they go on flawed info from ITS etc. You follow your instinct based on an educated guess from experience. Forget unimportant tidbits of info like " I need $90 a day to cover my insurance" that's a worthless number of no relevance which will distract you from focusing on the most important goal, getting a rate. Understanding that some freight, no matter how tight capacity is, will somehow always move for low rates is another thing. Only rarely does a load of paper rolls pay fair profitable rates, if the receiver is low on stock and broker is in the hot seat. They know what they need of that freight 6 months out, have a supply on the floor stocked, and can wait, rely on cheap. Unfortunately that is how a lot of dry freight is and why one must seek out very particular loads and segments as a solo truck spot operator to have any hope of success with a dry van. Now what exactly does that have to do with being on time and safe? Anyone can be safe and on time Very few put much thought into what they are doing beyond a decent rate on the next load.

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Slyfox, Rollin coal

You both make a lot of sense, thanks for the informative answers.

 

Your welcome. The big thing is, unlike the way AT sees the world, you're not out 'shopping' for a load. You're looking to sign a contract. Everything is negotiable, and you can easily walk away from that negotiation.

 

And you'll be looking for specific kinds of loads to get your best price. You have to listen to what the agent is telling you. Some, like CHR, are very good at never giving many hints at how desperate they may be to cover something. That said, even the good ones give hints away.. Most if not all would never up and tell you they really need a truck, but when they do that is your shot. From posting my truck available the past couple of months I have been able to land some very profitable loads from agents who were desperate, agents who I could easily take control of the conversation and get things to my liking. Sly, I used to never post my truck like you, freight was much better and I didn't have to, circumstances for me on my lanes now though, I have to.. It is just so much more than looking at freight boards and seeing loads that going from ABCD, State to WXYZ, State and thinking that would be a good load with good miles, it's only good if they need to move it at your price, and you will sort thru a ton of garbage dailyand spend many months learning a few good markets that will keep you busy.

 

Sly Fox and Rolling Coal have essentially told you, in this thread, how it's done. In fact they've been willing to share more information than I would have as to some degree, everyone on here is competing for the same freight. Listen to their advice, up to and inclucing getting a new MC number.