Why do so many Americans hate European trucks?

I am indeed, the ferries really depended on the length of the journey, busy times sailing etc, just for example when I was running just one truck a trip across the Irish sea to England was averaging €400 each way while a local large company was doing it for €230 each way for a standard truck and reefer, so that would be a saving of between €300-€340 per round trip and doing UK work you would do 3 trips per week so that would be a saving of approx €1000 a week per truck for the bigger company just for shipping, hard to compete with that.

Ferries can be very expensive for unusual loads like oversize stuff obviously cos you're taking more space but also for livestock cos you have to take two parking spaces to allow adequate ventilation around the trailer.

A picture of the ferry routes just around Ireland/ uk to shoemw the importance of ferries in Europe http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fe...sm&ei=aPdmUoADyJ_uBrmcgdAF&start=300&sa=N#i=1

 

Ok this is from someone who has driven a lot of both euro trucks and American trucks, they both have there good points and bad. Firstly you European guys keep going on about 4 point cab suspension. The reason conventional trucks don't run 4 point suspension is due to simplicity and because it isn't needed with the long wheel base. They don't ride any better, in fact I think they ride worse I feel like I'm in a boat and almost get sea sick. and I don't know about you but I like to have some sort of feel about what the truck is doing underneath me. Yes the K200 or argosy would really benefit from it but the conventional doesn't need it. The last Fh Volvo I drove the steering was so light I had trouble keeping the truck straight on the highway. Every tiny little movement and bump I ended up over correcting. When I drive beside a euro truck, bumps that I don't even feel I can see them bobbing up and down in the cab.
It also felt like when I put my foot down I wasn't telling the truck do something, I was asking it if it would, the truck would then think about it then it would do what I asked. I never really felt like I was in control of the truck, it felt like everything I did the truck would have to think about it then do something.

Better suspension? How is European suspension better? Ecas? That is just an electronic control the suspension the design is no better. If your suspension is so good why does DAF not even sell there own axels in Australia? They run KW air glide with meritor axels. Yes the DAF Axel's may be better but they also add nearly 500kg to the weight of the truck so they are not even an option over here. Also duel manual ride height control valves act quicker. And ecas only works for 6x2 and such if you are allowed to change the weight distribution on the duels. Don't know about America but we can't. It would put us over weight on the single drive axel and we can't have it. We get measured by single axel as well as axel groups and must be split evenly and not over weight on any one axel in the group.
Also disk brakes have been available for a while on American axels. We can so get abs, traction control, drag torque control, stability control, radar cruise with brakes, electric trailer brake actuation ect.

Gearboxes. Saying that synchro gearboxes are better isn't saying much. Yes they are easy to drive but that can be a bad thing as any oxygen thief can drive, whereas if it was a roadranger they might not have been able to. Also auto gearboxes are breeding a new type of truckie who don't understand the dynamics of trucks and then we need all of these electronic devices to save there ###, we are starting to see it with drivers who have driven Allison's as well.
I personally don't like synchro boxes I find them too slow and you have to use the cluch.

Steel cabs? Aluminum is not only as strong but also a lot lighter. This so dangerous material we use is also used by most of the top car manufactures as a replacement for steel. I know for a fact the Kenworth cabs meet ECE r/c29 the recognized standard for cab strength. And the windshields exceeded the standard by 200%. And not all manufactures use aluminum, western star and Mack still use steel. Yes euro cab over cabs are very strong so are American cabs.
Saying that euro cabs are bigger is just a straight up lie. Yes you can stand up but in most conventional's you do as well and we have cab overs that are much bigger inside like the 110" k200 and argosy. Also our cab overs have things like fold and swing out steps for easy access
One thing that I will say is the euros have cab packaging down to an art, and I wish some of the American trucks would take some ideas from the euros. But if you don't like it all you do is order the truck without cupboards and get a custom fit out which isn't much more expensive.

The problems with euros especially in Australia is when something goes wrong they can't be fixed without a computer this isn't a problem for a highway truck but once you get into the outback it can be. And for us the price of parts is astronomical, not saying that cummins or cat are cheap but a lot cheaper than euro parts and you don't need to go to the dealer to get them.

As for engines, yes the Europeans do make very fuel efficient engines, a little over exaggerated hp figures though, the 700hp volvos for example. But I think that for engines makers to survive they need pool there expertise like they are with Detroit-Mercedes and cummins-scania

We are trying to compare trucks that are built for different markets. Europe like Australia have length restrictions that include the prime mover so we need cab overs, America doesn't so they can have long prime moves. Me? I like a bonneted truck, my old man likes cab overs it's just personal preference and what works with your application. Both continents make very good trucks and the more we learn of each other the better it is for everyone.

 

I too have driven both us and euro trucks, unless Australian trucks are radically different than their us counterparts euro trucks ride far smoother than anything I've driven in Canada , the 4 point suspension takes all the jarring out of the ride especially roads like you'd have in the oil patch, yup it does make them feel floaty by comparison but like everything you get used to it and don't even notice it after a while, as for bobbing up and down, I've never driven a truck that does that unless it was something like a hino tipper, euro highway trucks certainly don't do that. I've also driven a conventional with 4point sus, the ride on that was nothing short of excellent. Having driven conventionals I would say I prefer the layout.

Most cabs in this part of Canada are not the big 72inch sleepers, they are in fact pretty small, nobody said that euro cabs are bigger but bigger than most of the cabs on tractors in NA, the room inside is more useable and most cabs in Europe are toplines, ssc etc so there almost 8ft of headroom, true the bunks are behind the seats but you can stand up, get dressed and move about and get into the driver seats without having to bend down or shuffle between the seats to get into them , except volvo as they have the smallest cabs in naziland but the beauty of NA is your allowed to have as big a cab as you want, Cabovers in NA are also very few and far between. Australian Cabovers are not subject to the same length restriction as euros boys so they can be larger inside. Cabs in NA especially on the likes of 379's and w900's are aluminum sheeting popriveted to a frame with fiberglass roofs in some cases and offers little protection in a rollover and certainly wouldn't pass euro regulations, most euro cabs are now Swedish crash standard anyways which stipulates that each cab pillar must be capable of supporting a 15 tonne static load instead of euro standard 10 tonne ( unless that's changed recently ) also the driver station space is too small so any cab intrusion is more likely to come into contact with the driver.

I agree with you about volvos power being very over exadurated , something I've always been critical of, my own Volvo 480's would be outpulled by my 420 scanias, a Scania 620 will hold into a Volvo 700, I've done that!

Being able the shift weight around between the axles is very important in Europe, we don't use tandem drives on general haul trucks to save fuel mainly, so in snow and ice it's very important to increase traction and depending on the axle configuration you can actually have more traction than a tandem on ice, in fact some tandems have a lifting rear drive axle to increase traction, euro trucks tend to have alot more suspension travel, set back axles on euro trucks also allow longer front springs making them smoother


As far as synchros go I don't find them slower than an eaton , Volvo with that stupid cableshift can be but generally they're not, and you can easily float shift a synchro if you wanted to.

As far as parts prices go there is no real difference in Europe between cat/cummins and locally made parts except parts availability is better for local brands, probably expensive for you guys cos they need to be imported, trucks and parts seem to be woefully expensive in Australia anyway.

I find the steering problems you're having the exact opposite , the first day I drove a truck in Canada it frightened the hell outa me, #### thing followed every rut in the road, I found them awful, took getting used to I'll tell you!

I don't think auto boxes are responsible for the amount af bad drivers on the road now, I think alot of proper drivers are leaving the profession due to over regulation , pay and conditions and are being replaced with guys with no intrest or understanding of driving in the first place, I've seen some spectacularly bad driving in recent years and it would make no difference what gearbox they had

 

Isn't the (reportedly ) better fuel efficiency of euro trucks owing, at least in part, to much lower driven speeds? I've heard anything from 80-90 KMH as Max speeds. Nobody drives that slow in NA.

 

Scania man, those aren't pop rivets. Even IH truck's which admittedly look like pop rivets to an untrained eye, aren't. Those are unibolts.

The fasteners on KW (and yes even Freightliner Columbias use them) are actually Huck-bolts similar ones used in airplanes.

Peterbilt and older Freightliners use bucked rivets that are also used in aircraft.

 

Would Us trucks work on these kind of roads?

Main Europe road 10 in Norway Speed limit is 80km/h


Not a Europe road but still 80km/h speed limit and a main boarder crossing between Norway an Sweeden. 10% gradient gross weight is around 50t
Truck is a tuned 620 6x2 with lifted tag Axle for maximum traction. Around 19t on the drive axle according to the truckscale. Chains? takes to much time!






Consumption on these kind of roads witch goes up and down all the time (a lot of 6-10% hills) with twist and turns in the winter are around 40l/100km grossing 50t = us gallons 5,8mpg if I did the math right

 

Have you heard of a place called British Columbia? 140,000# (63500 KG) on 8.5 % or more grades. Sometimes the main roads are only two lanes for hundreds of miles. Sometimes pushing snow with the front bumper.

So to answer your question. Yes NA trucks can do that. Better or worse, I can't say.

I'd rather not do any of it. LOL.

 

I use to operate US and EU trucks. Huck bolts are used it Europe too. I'd say Europeans and NA manufacters make cool chassis and axles. The best axle are made by Mercedes (now they sell it in NA as Detroit Axles).

EU and US trucks share powertraine. Emission is the same too (Euro 6 vs EPA2012).

Yep, US trucks are generally of conventional design, Europeans make cabovers and they limit speed for fuel efficiency. I used to shift governer ore disable it and got about 5-7% of MHG loss. Driver who rides my freightliner used to work on many trucks and generally on classical cabovers in 70s and 80s (he is old man). He keeps 50-60 MPH of crusing speed and use to ride faster to overtake someone, he makes 29-30 L/100KM. Not bad, really.

EU trucks MPG is the same, really. MPG depends on configuration, but if you compare EU trucktor with US trucktor.... of same configuration, like ERF with ISM vs International with ISM ore Scania 12L XPI engine vs Cummins XPI 11.9 - you cant see a notisable difference.

Ok, why Europeans love cabovers... first of all EU trucks are heavier (40 000 kg), US truck is 80000LBS max. In Europe no limits of wheelbase of trucktor and more load per axle and per tire allowed, thats why they use 4x2 trucktors and tridem trailers with 385/65R22.5 singles (12 tires per truck), in USA EU truck loaded with 40 000 LBS cant pass any scale. But US truck in EU - easily.

OK, problems of US truck in EU. First of all from bumper to bumper lenth limit. In many East EU countries U can use it with 40' trailer only... ore - cut sleeper.

Other problem - you need 12-24 voltage doubler becouse EU trailers are with EBS and it is not possible to use it with 12V power supply (exept of new variable power TEBS-E2 by Wabco).

ok, lets go on.. EPA levels must be changed with Euro emissions. Sometimes it is Easy with ECM reprogramming and making Euro certificates, sometimes - they use "charts" what EPA relevant to What Euro, so pre DEF engines with DPF are concidered Euro-4, later EPA2010 are Euro-5 + , EPA2012 is Euro-6. My shaker is Euro-2.

Lamps... not a big problem to fit E code headlamps and tailamps on any truck ore car.

US knobs are legal in Europe, but European park brake stick combined with trailer hand brake - not, becouse you have to use European glad hands with built in valves. If you separate european glad hand - it is closed.

steer rim lug must be closed with ring in Europe.

EU rim does not fit US hub becouse of lug pattern, but nuts and lugs are the same. US rims are a bit cheaper.

for winter operation in Russia US truck is better. Europeand sink in mud and snow like stones, US trucks keep going, but... if diff locks are ok.

 

Thats two lane road and the e6 is 3100km in Norway, 100km? maybe a highway. Some places the road is so small it's just meeting points . Not Highway. you got inches play on when you meet a truck ad winter to that and it's what I look forward to every year love the challenge


We have 76ton max in Finland now. 167 000lbs? with 60ton being the old std . Naaah enough #### measuring ####.

 

Yes the lower speeds help but US trucks are geared for the speed, the increased drag would be offset by with the higher weights in naziland, 700hp+ trucks are returning 10mpg+, aerodynamics have a huge role in it aswell as having just a single drive axle, it's not some huge advances in engine design or anything, it's just a bunch of small refinements making a bigger difference, there's a guy on this forum "dice 1" he's made a bunch of modifications to his truck and his deisel figures match or beat anything coming out of naziland , the new Mercedes actros has the best diesel figures and has a detroit under the cab!