I disagree with most of your post, but I will make one factual observation (before going to bed).
500 million barrels is not a blip on Peak Oil.
The world uses a tad more than 85 million barrels of oil per day, just about a thousand barrels of oil per second (wrap your mind around that).
500/85 = 5.88 days, less than a week of oil for the world.
The USA uses just less than 21 million barrels of oil per day.
500/21 = 23.89 days, way short of a month for just the USA.
The reason that natural gas is reinjected into Prudhoe Bay oil field is to maintain pressure and keep SOME oil coming out (Prudhoe is down to just 200,000 barrels/day, 1% of US demand, and shrinking fast). When they build a gas pipeline to Prudhoe Bay, they will "blow off the gas cap" and any oil left will be stranded. Exactly what is happening today in the Brent oil field in the North Sea (I forgot to mention that the UK no longer exports oil and they will be importing oil soon).
Sadly, reality is tough,
Alan
Peak Oil Point of View
Discussion in 'Truckers Strike Forum' started by AlanfromBigEasy, Apr 1, 2008.
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Yes they are, but we dont need them, since hydrogen can be made at home with relatively low cost equipment, this just proves how big oil wants to continue to pick the consumers pockets for ever. Why build hydrogen stations? to continue and pay them for fuel? I think United Nuclear's invention is closer to the answer it just wont make big oil any money and we dont have to wait for the fuel cell.
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You can disagree all you want. But the facts are on my side.
Let's point out Oil shale facts.
Source:
http://fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/npr/publications/npr_strategic_significancev2.pdf
The above quote, does not even factor natural gas into the equation. Nor does it include oil from other known/unknown sources.
Another fact: At 43,000 feet there are no fossils. This is the depth of the latest massive discovery in Russia.
Peak oil / Fossil fuels, are a myth period.
You could come back with cost of extraction issues. But, even the greedy oil companies have admitted that $50 per barrel oil would negate those issues.
What stops us now. The tree hugging whackos, who would have us reading by candle light THIS week if allowed.
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The last oil company to be experimenting with extracting oil shales is Shell. The last method that has a chance of success (I think a low chance) is freezing a wall around the site (to keep the oil contained) and heating the center long enough (at least 4 years) to turn the kerogen into light oil. (something nature never did, the heat added completes the process). And then drain out the oil that cooking has formed.
The Hirsch Report (you can download and read yourself) was a report commissioned by the Dept.of Energy on what the USA could do about Peak Oil.
www.netl.doe.gov/publications/others/pdf/Oil_Peaking_NETL.pdf
says that first oil shale in a bit over a decade and significant production in 20 years. I think Hirsch is unrealistically optimistic. And this is a "cost no object", war-time footing makes $10/gallon look *WAY* too low.
The Shell process takes about as much energy to heat and freeze as the oil extracted produces. You have to burn part of the oil extracted to dig out the coal needed for the power plants for cooking & freezing, so oil shale consumes oil for a decade until the first oil shale flows, and a good percentage of the oil shale produced goes back into coal mining.
So oil shale is over a decade away, past 2018 in any quantity, and Peak Oil no later than 2012.
I have not heard of a "massive Russian oil find at 43,000' " and I follow this pretty close. Do you have a link ? (Actually organic matter, such as pond scum and swamps, are the raw source of crude oil).
Best Hopes for a Tough Future,
Alan -
I have worked in Iceland (on a hydroelectric project) and visited 3 times with "Dr. Hydrogen", Dr. Bragi Arnason of the University of Iceland (Google him). I have seen the hydrogen filling station for the 3 experimental hydrogen buses in Reykjavik and talked with Straeto, the bus company operating them.
Straeto does NOT like the hydrogen fuel cell buses. The fuel cells need to be rebuilt every 10,000 km or so.
Iceland has very cheap electricity and even there hydrogen costs more than diesel.
Yes, you can make hydrogen easily, but NOT cheaply. $4 diesel looks VERY cheap in comparison. And rebuilding your fuel cell every 6,000 miles will not work well. Refill your hydrogen tank every couple of hundred miles.
Best Hopes for Tough Times Ahead,
Alan -
I'm sorry Alan....but Oil Shale is here now.
There are wildcatters in the fields of ND & SD as we speak. The issues are/were horizontal drilling, the industry has came a long way.
As for a link. Like you I can not find one. I just heard the story in the news last week, and wanted more. I'm still looking though.
Thankfully, Russia has been one stuborn country. And are quickly becoming a global leader in ultra deep exploration.
Back in the 80's we set a hole in Elk City, OK to reclaim the depth record from them. It only took a year or so, for them to reclaim it.
If you look at the history of Russian oil exploration. They HAD to go deep, to find their oil. As did Vietnam, who we told had no viable oil. Russia proved us to be nothing more than greedy SOB's when it came to Vietnam and their oil.
All in all, you do have some excellent points and information. I just tend to disagree with it, as do many others.
It's like the global warming/cooling debate LOL -
Russia is the world's largest oil producer today, Saudi Arabia #2 and the USA #3. We just burn *WAY* too much.
Russia has all sorts of oil (mainly on-shore) at all sorts of depths.
The trend is that the deeper one goes, the hotter it gets. At high enough temperatures, for long enough, oil cooks out into asphalt and natural gas. NG can be found very deep, oil less so.
Unfortunately, Russian oil production looks like it will drop this year, after a decade of annual growth.
I was confused by the two types of "oil shale". The massive reserves are in kerogen (pre-oil that has not been cooked long enough) shale (but called oil shale). That is what Shell is working on.
There are large amounts (but not gigantic amounts) of real oil in shale and new procedures are getting a trickle out. Cracking the shale rock, insert sand to keep cracks open and let it trickle out. Best guess is that new processes will get out 1% of the oil in place. Production/well is low but such wells can trickle for along time (as I understand the Bakken and other plays). Send out a truck every few weeks and get a load of crude.
Shale is very "tight" rock and oil does not flow easily. Limestone and sandstone are MUCH better, but we are scrapping the bottom of the barrel.
One of my friends is a West Texas geologist who is completing a 1,000 barrel/day oil field (he will be a richer man) and searches for oil fields left over, but he is more pessimistic than I am about future US oil production.
*IF* you have the time, check out the articles and debate at http://www.theoildrum.com LONG learning curve and sharp debate. Scan old articles first would be my suggestion. The Oil Drum is the tech center of the Peak Oil movement. Many oil professionals and professors there.
Best Hopes for the Tough Future Ahead,
Alan -
Alan makes some good points and has some good current stats as well. To point to one solution,I think, is to over simplify the issue.
This country currently runs on,and was built on oil. And it will for the forseeable future (40-75 years). There is no viable substitute for it,and to think that we can conserve our way out of being an oil-driven nation is niave. As far as "alternatives",including rail service and ethanol,there are many big problems with them. Starting with subsidies. Have you noticed that every time Washington decides to "help" the free-market system, it ends up doing just the opposite? Ethanol would have to sell for over $6.00 a gallon on the open market. Thanks to Uncle Sam throwing our money at it, magically it is now competitively priced. Not to mention the energy it takes to produce it makes it almost a wash! And the jury is still out on the emmisions factor. Meanwhile milk is headed to $5/gallon and everything else related to corn has gone up. Other crops are being displaced by corn planting because farmers have to make a buck too.
How long have RR subsidies been a part of the federal budget? And Alan, please tell me how BNSF is going to get my strawberries from Fla. to Cali. before they turn into goo?
Continued research into other fuel supplies is also a must,but let's let the folks who are already neck-deep in this (yes Big Oil) partake in it. Just like Kodak had to adapt to the digital age or die,normal market forces-with the Gov. staying out of it-will yield realistic solutions to this problem.
Change in the law to let us drill and build refineries is what we need to do in the interum. And for the record,I am a driver-not a politition.
P.s. Does anyone have a good recipe for spotted owl? Every time I make it it tastes like chicken. -
Alan,
We'll just have to agree to disagree, although I am with you on the fuel cell part.
I'll be taking a peek at the links, thanks for those as well.
We obviously come from 2 differant backgrounds when it comes to oil. I say this because I've witnessed firsthand the capping of very active wells, and the following reports of DRY hole after it was done.
While I disagree with the reasons for doing it. I understand and support those reasons, although not without frustration. That's a completely differant debate altogether. -
[/quote]And Alan, please tell me how BNSF is going to get my strawberries from Fla. to Cali. before they turn into goo? [/quote]
Bush's DoT asked for projects to reduce inter-city congestion for funding. He got 19 proposals for added lanes to interstates or new interstate highways plus one from CSX.
Grade separate their 1,200 miles from DC to Miami, two tracks for regular freight at 60 to 70 mph. And one track (two from Richmond to DC) for passengers and express freight at 100 to 100 mph.
www.railsolution.org/articles/Articles_Top_level/CSX_Corridors_of_the_Future.pdf
has problems Try http://secorridor.fra.dot.gov/docs/csx/CSX_CFP.pdf for shorter summary.
Electrification allows for reefer rail cars. Change in DC to Amtrak's Northeast Corridor and strawberries can make it from Florida to Boston in very good time and good shape. Transfer to trucks for cities off the electrified line.
Build, say, 7,000 miles of semi-High Speed rail and electrify and expand capacity on another 33,000 miles (operating speeds 50 to 79 mph). Canadian National is the only RR that runs scheduled trains routinely (short or long, they go). Much more of that type operation will be needed.
It will takes decades for a complete changeover, but results can happen in a few years.
Best Hopes,
Alan
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