Driving time / time worked v. safety

Same here Gas...but you've been at this long enough to know what it used to be like.

Sure, this ain't then. But it can be, real easy.

 

Me, I count myself quite fortunate to NOT have opted for this silly career 20 years ago.

I'm also smart enough to have done a ton of research before I ever signed on the dotted line..

As a result, I get miles.
As a result, I get decent pay.
As a result, I get along well with my DM.
As a result, I'm having FUN

And there are a couple of significant differences between the pilots in question and truckers. The mass of the machinery they move, and the cargo they carry.

Any airliner out-masses your fully loaded truck by a bunch. When it hits something, very bad things will happen. It's also a heck of a lot more expensive. It costs more to maintain than a truck costs to buy.

Airliners tend to carry very high dollar cargo. A million bux? ha! you are looking at hundreds of millions (more on the jumbos)

Further - there is a HUGE difference in the training and learning requirements.

If I were running a trucking company, the first thing I'd want to do is maximize profit. My largest expenditure is drivers, so, obviously, I want to pay the least amount possible. If I can get a driver for 24 cents - and keep him for, say, 6 months - I've saved (for example) 20 cpm from not hiring danc694u for that same stretch. So, 20% of that is eaten up in increased insurance, and maybe 1% in inherent inefficiency because the 24-center doesn't know the tricks Danc694u does.. I'm still making (effectively) 14 cpm more off that 20center than I would be off of Danc694u. Maybe a little less if my freight rates are a little lower than other companies.

Sure, he leaves after 6 months - but there's always somebody to replace him, so my business model is sound. Especially so if there's an economic down-turn. So what if I pay less? I make it easy to get a job. If you want more money, go somewhere else.

So long as people are lazy, I'll have a sufficient supply of new drivers to keep my business going.

There is where the problem lies. Not in more regulation or collective bargaining. The problem lies with the employees not bothering to do any research before they hire on.

And that is where boards such as this one come into play - anybody looking for a job in this industry can come here and see what experienced people have to say.

A lot do - and what do most of THEM do? Rather than listen to the voice of experience, they assume "it won't happen to me", and go right to work for that company that they were warned about.

The tools are in place to bring about a change. Just nobody is willing to pick up the first nail.

 

We should want to be like pilots ? Taking 30% cuts in our wages and losing half our pensions ? Yup they really gained a lot from their union .

 

What do you mean? Some of those guys were asked to take 60% cuts.

Not in my ####### lifetime. I'll flip burgers..and someone else can drive the truck.

It's a historical fact.... you can put 5 truck drivers in a room, with 2 pieces of lumber, blue prints, and tools. Come back an hour later, and they still haven't drove the first nail, or made the first cut...but everyone of them has a black eye, or a bloody lip.

A week later...same thing.

 

I will testify to danc694u's comments (this comes from someone who drove from 1976-1982 and returned to trucking last year after 20 years of being a college professor)...

Point #1: To compare pilots to truckers is like comparing Shelby Cobras to hippie-vans, ridiculous. Think of it this way: How many pilots could drive a truck with a couple weeks training and how many truckers could fly a 737 with a couple weeks training? Just try to find a commercial pilot that 1) doesn't have a college degree or two and 2) doesn't have years of experience in the seat.

Does that sound like your average trucker? My experience, as Lurch noted, is that if you have a pulse they will put you behind the wheel of a truck...education - not a requirement, experience - not a requirement. Basic economics says that when large numbers of people can do a job (like trucking) and they are willing to do the job (worker surplus) AND the need for these workers is declining (in an economic downturn) wages and working conditions will be low. One of the reasons the airlines are pushing for pay and benefit cuts from pilots is that large numbers of pilots have been laid-off...hence a worker surplus, which leads to decreased wages and benefits.

Point #2: Driver conditions today cannot be compared with driver conditions 30+ years ago. I ran two log books for all the years I drove in my first go-round in this industry. Four-thousand miles a week, year-in and year-out. Leave California at 80K and have to run every scale in Iowa along I-80 (I remember letting air out of my tires to get under a low train trestle on some backroad of Iowa). Then load out at 80 - 100K and run every scale coming back to California. It was EXPECTED of me!!! I tolerated it. How have things changed? Last week I posted about being asked to "recreate" some pages of my log book for my company (a perfect job for me up to this point, high wages, drop & hook)...I told them to "pound sand" when I finally figured out what they wanted. They won't fire me because they know I can do the job as a professional driver (never missed a turn, never missed paperwork, never a complaint)...I immediately went looking for another job with a company that up-front demands that you obey the HOS. I'll take a pay-cut to change jobs...and if they try to see what I will "tolerate", I'll move on again. The point: the driver conditions are only what the DRIVER can and will tolerate.

The regulations which govern HOS are just that, regulations. Think of them as speed limit signs...some people willingly obey and some willingly don't. You can make the HOS regulations whatever you want (the same as pilots, if that makes someone happy)...some drivers will willingly obey them (me for one) and some will not (willingly, I might add). You are the CAPTAIN of your truck - NO ONE can MAKE you do ANYTHING. If you haven't got clear lines set in your mind that you will NOT cross (and you would be willing to tender your resignation over), then you are setting yourself up for abuse.

danc694u stated it correctly: "You don't know what real driver abuse is...in the least." I might add, I hope you never find out! Learn your profession (which is significantly more than holding the wheel and shifting gears), inside and out. Then you will be the driver that can pick and choose which company he will grace by agreeing to work for them. Then obey the regulations and insist that your company obeys regulations...and if they don't, you won't have to worry. There are trucking companies that want professional drivers and they will line-up for them. The only worker surplus we have in the driver end of the trucking industry are the "steering wheel holders", there is a real shortage of professional drivers...and professional drivers don't get abused, by anyone.

 

I'll go so far as to expand on that even further.

I don't know what the majority of the younger guys are looking for within the trucking industry. But based on what I have read here and other sites. they come into this industry with an abuse me target painted on their backs....from day one. i did the same when I started.

When we speak of paying our dues, and "old" school topics. It's because us old farts have been where these new drivers are now.

We needed a job, we needed money...and we "desired" to take care of our family. No matter the cost to us physically and mentally. Our family and their well being were what pushed us.....not greed.

It's a matter of survival for some in the beginning. Safety goes out the window, when your wife and small children are looking at living on the street. Family comes first...period.

I don't care who you are....you will run illegal. If your family's future well being is on the line. And as men, we've always accepted that responsibility. Maybe not so much now it seems. But WTF...

And like Neal, I'll tell a SOB to go piss up a rope, if they don't like the way I run my truck now. I ripped my target off years ago.

I may not be 100% legal all the time. But you can bet...I'm #### close, 98% of the time.

 

Comparing truck drivers to pilots is definitely nuts. No comparison.

My hubby is what would be considered a noob, but he had an advantage - a wife who use to drive and a father-in-law who use to drive. He knew not to fall for the BS. Hubby doesn't need to run illegal - he does fudge a few minutes here or there (who doesn't that isn't running paperless logs), but only carries one log book. The company he started for - Werner, home of the paperless log - didn't expect him to run illegal. He couldn't. The company he drives for now watches log books like a hawk watching it's dinner.

He doesn't drive tired, he gets home when he wants to - yes he does, and he has one of the best vacation deals I have ever seen - a week off paid at $1000 every 30,000 miles. His DM routed him home recently for a reset because he was sick, so that he could kick the bug that he had in the comfort of his home instead of a truck. The company he runs for has a tendency to give him more time than he needs to deliver the loads they assign him, to the point where he has relayed them so that he didn't have to sit for 2 days waiting to deliver.

Do we want the drivers to be dealing with the same crap the pilots do from the government and the unions - no! Drivers that want the union support work for union companies. The rest of us just want to run our freight, get our home time, and do it with the least amount of headaches possible. The last thing the trucking industry needs is more regulations. Bring back the split break, keep the reset, and keep the Government and safety associations out of it.

 

INTHE......

You'll pay your dues. And theres little you can do about. The US department of Labor has always listed "Truck Driving" as an unskilled labor.

Airline Pilots...are "Skilled Labor"

Big difference there. In the early years, truckers were considered by the public to be "trash". As most didn't have much of an education to speak of, if any

Now it has come full circle. We have many people from other "professional" fields that have moved into trucking for various reasons. And they don't like it, so they whine about it.

If it is so bad....go home and stay there. You can pay for your own "vacation".

Things I can do...besides drive a truck and whine all day.

#1 Radio & Television -- I hold a degree in Broadcast communications (I've got some killer backstage pics and industry toys)

#2 Computers -- I hold a C++ and A+ cert And could easily obtain my MCSE (Your slightly above average teen can do most of this now...for free.)

#3 I ran a successful business for a couple of years, before selling it. I can that again. (Even longer hours with complete Aholes as customers)

THESE jobs paid well. But lacked the freedom I get while driving a truck.

Are there problems. Yes.

Change will come, as markets tighten and freight regains traction. It is 10 times better now (for the driver) than it was 20 years ago. It will continue to get better, as regulations take the players (companies) out of the loop.

A much faster change will occur when the economy starts to pick back up. All the "part-time" drivers who held jobs in construction and other fields...will bail.

And once again, the "Professional Driver" will be in the seat, asking for more money, more benefits, and better treatment. And he will get it.