Why do so many Americans hate European trucks?

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by snowbird_89, Jun 10, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. KVB

    KVB Heavy Load Member

    877
    2,874
    Jun 30, 2012
    0
    Replacing filters is something completely different than doing a regeneration.

    Do you think they don't need to regenerate the dpf when idle time is kept below 20%?

    Try hooking up a J1939 CAN-reader to the aftertreatment CAN-bus and monitor for example parameter PGN64892/SPN3700, PGN64800/SPN4765 and SPN4766 or PGN64947/SPN3246. And you will see that they do regenrations, even the latest european MX-engines.
    Both passive AND active.
    DAF does not normally show active regeneration on the dashboard, but you may get the hot exhaust warning when parking or coming to a stop during a regeneration.

    The North American versions will probably need more frequent regeneratios because they run higher EGR-rates to reduce DEF consumption. That is also the reason why many north american versions of basically the same engine have an intake throttle valve, and the european versions don't.

    Another thing I noticed on the more recent engines is that perform regenerations much more often, but for shorter duration.
    Where the older engines seem to let the soot level in the dpf rise to almost the maximum level, and then perform a long regenation, the newer engines seem to keep the soot level much lower all the time by doing multiple short renerations.
     
    98989, Oxbow and Cat sdp Thank this.
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. daf105paccar

    daf105paccar Road Train Member

    6,564
    7,292
    Apr 15, 2012
    0
    With active you regen,you mean a parked regen?
     
  4. KVB

    KVB Heavy Load Member

    877
    2,874
    Jun 30, 2012
    0
    South Korea is not too bad. They are a modern society.

    Sure, the food is different, but even in smaller towns you can get more or less european/american style food. And even the Korean food in general is not too bad. At least some of it.

    I went to places that were much worse, but I went to places that were much better as well.
     
    Oxbow Thanks this.
  5. KVB

    KVB Heavy Load Member

    877
    2,874
    Jun 30, 2012
    0
    No, active regen is where the 7th injector injects fuel into the exhaust.
    Or on PX engines, a late post-injection through the common rail injector.

    In the DOC the unburnt fuel in exhaust gasses will react with the excess oxygen and create the required high temperature to burn off the soot
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    daf105paccar and Oxbow Thank this.
  6. 98989

    98989 Road Train Member

    5,990
    6,740
    Sep 14, 2008
    0
    of course, but fact that sleeper cab truck dont have them is alarm, no matter if this is company truck. here i know only for one sleeper cab truck that dont have it.
    some day cab have it too. especially snowplow trucks.
     
  7. 98989

    98989 Road Train Member

    5,990
    6,740
    Sep 14, 2008
    0
    here since 1991, available on market since 1980 in MB.
    ebs in use since 1996 ( officially never become mandatory, but some things are simply not possible to made without it so....)
     
  8. 98989

    98989 Road Train Member

    5,990
    6,740
    Sep 14, 2008
    0
    i made thesis on ebs brakes at my second collage, including some test numbers i cant talk here about.
    i am not sure if there is anything now on market without EBS, but i think not.
    of course we need abs sensors for ebs, but way it works is not make any sense to compare this.

    mb started to work on disc brakes with wabco in 1977. renault offer disc brakes on front axle since 1983.
    mb put abs on market on busses in 1981 on truck latter that yr. i have book at home from 1980s from mb about future technology in trucks, lets say we have now covered about 70% of that really interesing one.

    scania and bosch worked together on ebs in early 1980s, on iaa frankfurt 1984 they presented system but it was too expensive, slow and not interesting to market.

    after herborn case in 1987 market become very spectic about modern technology. mb ng1635s had crash hauling 34000l of fuel on 8%, 8km incline where it lost conventional brakes, due to bad lining on trailer. truck was equipped with automated gearbox called eps. after driver lost its brakes he tried to fix problem with downshifting using engine brake.... eps did what it was made for, not allowed too low gear to protect engine for over-rev......he did not manage to turn to highway but continued into city center....lost control turn over, explosion, 6 dead 41 injured, 12 houses destroeyd 17million german mark of damage, it was pizza place at site, but luckly closed for some reason otherwise it will be much worst, it is one of 5 worst vehicle accidents in germany.....i dont remember all details anymore.

    but this accident changed all, different studies were made, safety become important. developing of new system started. each system went trough much more tests before launch on market
    laws and regulatives were changed. there are extra examination of safety elements. customer become very sceptic about new technologies. manufacturers bring extra effort to convince them into this.

    same year mercedes present topas tank truck ( ironically development started before accident) safest truck in world, with different active and passive elements
    -abs
    -asr
    -retarder
    -tpm
    -esp
    -ebs ( called EPB)
    -different cameras and extra mirrors to eliminated blind spots
    -monitoring of splash inside tank
    -system to alert in case of emergency
    -radar to warn in case of possible accident
    -tank body lowered 150mm into chassis ( @daf105paccar - now they are round again as they concluded it makes less drag to fluid to rotate and thereby help with stability )
    -double tank walls

    in mid of 1994 scania started field testing in germany at haulage companies with about 65 trucks( dont remember good), first results and impression are good.

    they came into production in october 1996 on scania 4 series, and just month latter on actros.(serial equipment), ebs become more popular in 1999 with second generation of system.
     
  9. KVB

    KVB Heavy Load Member

    877
    2,874
    Jun 30, 2012
    0
    Europe has regulations diesel, 6 different classifications for regular diesel, and 5 for arctic diesel.
    Most (if not all) countries have regulations when to use which classification of diesel.

    For example Germany (Shell data):
    April 15 - September 30: maximum CFPP (Cold Filter Plugging Point) 0 °C / 32 F
    October 1 - November 15: max CFPP -10 °C / 14 F
    November 16 - February 28: max CFPP -20 °C / -4 F
    March 1 - April 14: max CFPP: max. -10 °C / 14 F


    As long as you fill up at stations that get frequent supply of new diesel you should be OK, all over europe. But it can be tricky if you fill up in winter in the south of europe at a station that still has old summer fuel, and then drive north to scandinavia.


    I tried to find info on the arctic fuels, but fuel suppliers do not give to many data.
    Most only specify density, not the Heating Values of the different fuels, how much energy per unit of mass of the fuel (BTU per lbs, or MJ per kg). These combined determine how much energy per liter or gallon.

    I found that for europe, there is a 2.5 - 3% difference in density, arctic fuel being lighter than summer fuel. This in itself would mean a 2.5-3% higher fuel consumption.
    I did not find data for the Heating Value of true arctic fuel, but it may be a bit lower than for the summer fuel. The 2 combined (density and heating value) may result in 2.5-4% higher consumption.

    For North American diesel, #1 and #2, the diffence in density is larger, probably closer to 5%, so consumption will be higher as well.

    Another difference is that #1 and at least some of the european arctic fuels have a lower cetane number which may delay the combustion, resulting in slightly lower engine efficiency. Probably different engine may behave differently on the lower cetane number.

    In total my best guess is that using true arctic diesel or #1 will result in a 5-7% higher fuel consumption, compared to summer diesel (in same conditions).
    When blending #1 and #2, or using the european non-arctic winter diesel the differences will be less.

    Of course in winter there are a lot of other factors that result in higher consumption.
    Lower temperatures mean denser air, and more aerodynamic drag (pushing through thikker air).
    Tires do not reach as high temperature (and pressure) which results in increased rolling resistance.
    In case of rain or snow, rolling resistance is increased even more, and you are not only pushing the truck through the already denser air, but also through the rain/snow that is in the air.
    More idling.
    Oils do not reach as high temperatures and create more churning losses.

    Because of all these factors, overall fuel consumption in winter can easily be 20 - 30% higher than in summer, but only a (minor?) part of it is because of the winter fuel
     
    haycarter, 98989, W9onTime and 2 others Thank this.
  10. W9onTime

    W9onTime Heavy Load Member

    710
    1,351
    Oct 6, 2017
    0
    I read similar on uk diesel , didn’t really feel like arguing with paf105 about using fuel from southern France in the arctic circle .
    I wouldn't chance -10 or -20 Celsius fuel in -30 or -40 conditions
    I can assure you the number 1 or Kero mix , make less power you can really feel it and fuel consumption is sky high 20% would be about right . As I understand the main culprit is paraffin, when cold they crystallize and prevent flow , first in filters then in lines
     
    KVB and Oxbow Thank this.
  11. Oxbow

    Oxbow Road Train Member

    10,637
    107,809
    Nov 24, 2015
    Idaho
    0
    I think that a European example of what we can face is Florence, Italy to Oslo, Norway.
    It shows approximately 2200 km, or 1364 mi..

    Compare this to a trip from Los Angeles, California to Lethbridge, Alberta, which is approximately 2300 km or 1426 miles. This is a two day trip that can be done on one tank(s) fill-up. You are never going to find a winter blend of fuel in Los Angeles, and may have to get to Idaho before finding a moderate winter blend, so by the time one gets to Canada it would be easy to have a poor blend of fuel in the tanks for their winter. It is conceivable to go from 90*f to -40*f during that trip.

    In the comparison to the European trip, does Florence Italy have a satisfactory winter blend of fuel for driving conditions in Oslo? Do they have several pumps so that the driver can select the fuel needed (many in Idaho and Montana do)? If they do not, then do the trucks that run in Italy only have to suffer with poorer performance due to winter blend fuel being required?
     
    SAR and W9onTime Thank this.
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  • Thread Status:
    Not open for further replies.