my logbook violation...question

You are not supposed to put any hours in the boxes that add up to more than 24 hours....if you want to do multiple days off you draw a line across line one and write 24 hours and on the space under the graph write in the dates

12/20/08-12/26/08
Off duty

 

I got a Level 3 about 15 years ago in that little POS scale on I-80 in Iowa before they built the "Super-Coops". It was "Training-Day".
7 different DOT cops using the same figures and the same calculator came up with 8 different results, and since THEY couldn't decide how many hours LEFT out of 70, they shut me down for 24 hours.

 

Sorry Ziggy,
it seems I have previously answered this question about 9 months ago, and I got it wrong THEN too....LOL
Anyway, I posted a PIC of how it SHOULD be logged:

 

I think the graphs are not necessary at all, they only add to the unpaid duty time of drivers (which contributes to stress, which effects safety, which is why these regulators are paid tax money), and it provides a critical failure point that is preventable in a driver's duty day.

By not requiring the drawing of a graph you prevent the possibility of error, and the lost time involved with putting drivers out of service, and give the driver one less thing to worry about?

You can simply use a table and record the driving, duty, off, and sleep times in different columns. You take a calculator and add up the totals at whatever point you are in a day. I find the argument silly that we can't expect college grads (most police officers have degrees) to add up the numbers, that we must provide a picture for them?

Much of the logistics software out there does not draw a graph before it makes a decision? If you have a police officer out there that needs to draw a graph, by golly let him do it!

At least he gets paid for it?


copy right 2008, all rights reserved.

 

Bangngears is correct above. The Record of duty status is a 24-hour document. This is clearly shown in 395.8. In order to make it a multiple day off duty document you put today's date at the top. Draw your 24-hour line across line one. place a 24 in the time frame to the right of the grid/graph. Then in the remarks section you write off duty with the city & state location, and the days you were off e.g. Off Duty, Moline, IL, 12/23/08 through 12/31/08.

If your off duty time transpires in 2 consecutive months, or years, you should do one off duty log for December & one for January. Remember, the carrier must keep your logs for 6-months. If you place even one day of the next month into the equation, the carrier must keep that log for 7-months because of the added time into the second month. The sooner the carrier can dispose of the log the better off both the carrier and you will be.

And Patriotforyou; if or not you agree or not it's still the law. It seems to have worked quite well for almost 60-years now. While it may seem rediculous to you there was a reason for it when the rules were written. If it is that silly why don't you, or for that matter why hasn't any other persons in the past 60-years, request(ed) to your congress critters to petition the FMCSA to remove the stupid parts.

But I am a believer in technology. I believe that the RDS should be replaced with on-board recorders. That way the carrier, dispatcher and driver could be kept honest. And all the pettiness and bickering would be eliminated. Of course the on-board recorders should be protected by tamper-proof devices to eliminate problems caused by fools that think they can drive 80 MPH for 17-hours because they believe it makes them more money.

But within reason it's a free country. Of one doesn't like their job they can always find a different one.

 

It doesn't HAVE to make any "sense", amigo.
It's the gubmint at work.

Tell that to MY dispatcher.

I think many companies think a driver can fill out
their log book in their free time.

Fillin' out LOG books is "stressful"?

If the tax-payers didn't pay 'em, who WOULD? :smt102

A picture can be worth a thousand words.

And there are those who think an Officer's time is better spent catchin' desperadoes.

Then every Big truck truck driver could log 'team' drivin' --- and list Big Brother as their co-driver?

In your "honest" opinion, which I respect, is "honesty", in CERTAIN situations, ALWAYS the BEST policy?

Big truck truck drivers will find other things to be petty about and continue bickering 'bout SOMEthing.

What about "fools" that don't speed or run a LOT of extended hours on a regular basis, --- who are hauling multi-million dollar loads, and believe it's better to run an extra half hour, or so, to spend their 10 hours off duty in a MUCH safer area?

Big truck truck drivers are, after all, enTRUSTED with the loads they transport.
I think common sense helps them keep that trust.

Even the best trip-planners don't always know what to expect in certain areas, and when they discover a crime infested area, and make a decision not to stop there for safety reasons, not to mention the amount of police hours that would be spent investigating a theft of cargo, is that so wrong?

Can an on-board tattle-tale make those decisions wisely? Or would a wise driver be subjected to stiff fines for being wiser than a dumb machine, --- in CERTAIN situations?

Why is it assumed that the ONLY reason a Bttdriver gets creative in their log book is to run harder, run longer, or otherwise 'cheat' the system, --- supposedly, designed for SAFETY?

There ARE loads that SOME thieves will follow for HUNDREDS of miles just waiting for the right opportunity to take a break-in.
And SOME of those thieves have been known to hurt a Big truck truck driver to get it.

Also, there have been Bttruck drivers who have been accused of being part of an in inside job when they've been relieved of their cargo in an area where it's determined they SHOULDN'T have stopped at in the first place. But, ....... they were out of hours, --- and perhaps 30 minutes from a safer area.

Define "free".

Now see?
That's where you and I differ, Mr. Anderson.

If I like my job, and see ways to improve my job, in duties and/or performance (within legal limitations --- I'm not suggesting an anything goes mentality) --- that's what I'm more likely to do.

If I/we high-tailed it every time we didn't like a job, I/we'd never stop runnin'. And the job(s) would never improve. Well, ...... that is, unless EVERYone ran away. That could change thangs, too, I reckon.

I/we may be paid by the mile, or a percentage of the load --- either way, --- IMO, part of that pay I/we receive is to
THINK. And if/when I find MYself in a seedy area, known for crime(s), by golly, I THINK I'm gonna continue on to a safer environment.

Doing so does NOT necessarily mean that a Bttdriver is too tired to continue, and/or unsafe in doing so. But spending 10 dark hours in a cesspool can be less than restful --- while sleeping with one eye open and ears on full alert for dirt-bags in the midst.
A well rested Bttdriver is a safer Bttdriver, I'm told, --- and I believe.

And IF a Bttdriver should be accosted, as their load is being stolen, what do you suggest they do about it?
Nothing?
Make a cell phone call? (From what may be one of those 'dead' areas with no reception)
Tell the thieves that the police have been called?
Or just hunker down in their bunk, hoping that the thieves won't eliminate a potential witness to a million-dollar theft?

I've heard it said that, in business,
location
location
location
is important to achieve success.
I think that's correct.
And SOME 'locations' are MILES from NOwhere, and thieves' dens to boot --- due to the slow response times by law enforcement.
In other words, a Bttdriver is on their own.
And if their better sense tells 'em to move on, but the laws say NO, what to do?
Electronic monitoring would assure a Bttdriver remain vulnerable.
Might even catch an image of the whacko who whacked the Bttdriver so, if caught, they might do jail time, --- beyond a reasonable doubt?
I doubt it.
Some comfort and/or closure for the whacked Bttdriver's family?
I doubt it.
It COULDA been prevented, I'm thinkin'.
With the potential for punishment the reward for prevention.

I'm thinkin' a log book 'loan' system could work. For instance, exceed the allowed hours, slightly, today, ..... and repay it tomorrow. Run an hour past 11 hours driving, but still within the 14 hours allowed, and tomorrow be restricted to running 10 hours within 14 hours.

Men and women humans build machines. At this point, intelligent machines aren't totally built by other machines --- they still need human input and assistence to be assembled. For that reason, I'm opposed to total control by a machine that NEVER has to sleep, eat, shower, or worry.

So, until the MACHINES accept TOTAL responsibility of ANY outcome, I think I'll continue to do my OWN thinkin'. And ask a machine for assistence if and when I really NEED it.

OH!
And an AfterShock AfterThought.

When Big truck truck drivers go over their allowed hours driving, some folks consider them dangerous because they're piloting 80,000 pounds of deadly force.

Yet, a police Officer can work a double shift with deadly force riding on their hip.
No danger there?
If tired truckers make more mistakes, how much of a stretch of the imagination is it assume police Officers are no different?
Split-Second decisions!
Eighty thousand pounds at 65 MPH
or
115 --> 158 grain projectiles travelin' around
2,000 feet per second.
Which is more deadly?

Now, consider an electronic log system for police Officers. They're chasin' a bad guy, and have said bad guy cornered in a dead-end alley.
Lookin' good for the law --- not so for the law-breaker. A bust is mere minutes away.

But, WaiT!
The electronic logger won't allow the police Officer to continue.
He's OUT of HOURS.
And MUST take a break.
Right then and there.
Or face stiff fines.

And if the Officer ignores that machine,
he'll be called on the carpet and disiplined for, ......... what?
Doing his job to the BEST of his abilities?
With those 'abilities' somewhat limited by the wonders of electronics?

Sound far-fetched?
Remember the marvels of electronics, doin' our thinkin' FOR us seems to be the popular trend now-a-daze.
In the interest of 'safety', no doubt (we're told).
Then again, it might be control.
TOTAL control.
Ya reckon.

All RIGHT, driver!
ON THE GROUND!
DO IT NOW!

Your log book indicates you're over your
legally allowed hours of service.
How DARE you break the law?

But!
Officer, ...... I,........
SheT UP, Stoopid!
and
Put'cher hands behind yer back.
Watch your head.

 

The above poster explained the correct way to fill an off duty log!

However many drivers are misunderstanding the point of filling out 1 log for more than one day if you are OFF DUTY.
Actually I believe a post of training is required to explain for all drivers reading. Check it out Now or maybe later.

 

You RULE, Logs!
YeS you do!

MERRY CHRISTMAS !

 

Please , we have enough groups like Public Citizen and Road Safe America wasting the time of courts and regulating officials without encouraging more of it .
Cyber posted a thread regarding FMCSA using technology in GPS's in phones and other devices in auditing . If a carrier uses these devices to track their trucks is an EOBR really necessary ?

 

You run for SNI right? Whoever did your orientation must've dropped the ball on that one, because I can tell ya, we went over the log books and sheets, and how they want it done because they're very specific about that crap.

As for the 100+.... Prolly not too many folks see that one, but I'd say with the 1 out the the side of the regular spot?