Question about GVWR

Si

Too much info? Read the Reg, for a B it’s either the gross vehicle weight rating OR the gross vehicle weight whichever is greater.

 

First that is a definitions section. Now go read 383.91. It is different.

§383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups.
(a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:

(1) Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.

(3) Small Vehicle (Group C)—Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in §383.5.

 

About my last 2 posts about this regulation. I have took note these 2 sections are contradictory. I asked a guy at the Atlanta office of the FMCSA about this. He told me go by 383.91 because in most situations officers don't cite because of violating 383.5.

Edited:

It is just a personal opinion based on nothing but a guess. However I think 383.5 was poorly written by a different team then the people that worked on 383.91. What I think they were trying to say in 383.5 is a CMV for CDL purposes is one that is over 26.001 rated weight or more or pulling a trailer that makes the rig go past this same 26,001 total gross weight. In this situation with the OP no trailer is involved. However having 34,000 on such a vehicle is dangerous and can lead to huge fines.

 

Several years ago (I believe around 2010-2011) they revised the definition of CMV in 383.5 so that the definitions in 390.5 and 383.5 would be equal. The purpose was to make subject to the FMCSR’s those who would not be required to have a CDL but would then load past the threshold of either weight or passengers. The examples they gave if I remember correctly was a 13 passenger bus which is transporting 18 passengers. The intent was of the revision was to make the driver accountable under the FMCSR’s. The logic applied to weight for class B and A gross weights as it did to passengers.

The Atlanta person you talked to must have missed the memo, and I will bet that although most may not enforce 383.5, many will. Ask Scale Master, I bet he will.

One problem as you probably know is that the State DMV is required by the Feds to issue CDLs based on ratings not gross weights. So if I try to test for a CDL with a 26000 GVWR vehicle with a GVW of 34000, they will not allow it, in fact most have no way of knowing the weight and most will not do a road test with a loaded vehicle.

 

I'm not sure where you are getting your information. However 383.5 was last changed in in 1987. 390.5 was last changed in 2017. Please, stop! Every single section of the regulations has something on the end of it.

383.5

[52 FR 20587, June 1, 1987]

390.5

[82 FR 5311, Jan. 17, 2017]


If the FMCSA is trying to snyc up 383.5 and 390.5 they would not wait 30 years to do it.

 

An easy way to check for change is to compare the definition in the federal register in 1987 to what it is today.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-1987-06-01/pdf/FR-1987-06-01.pdf#page=217

Go ahead, read the 1987 Fed Reg definition and compare it to today. You will see a difference and no revision date. If you want an explanation I’ll be happy to offer it. Clue, it’s for the same reason no revision was shown for the “change” in tank vehicle definition under 383.5

 

383.91 is CLEAR what defines a CMV in regard to a CDL. This is backed up by the DMV websites of just about every state. You are not arguing with me you are telling the FMCSA that 383.91 is wrong. Look there comes a time when out of pure exhaustion it is time to stop. So I am stopping, not because you are right, because you are wrong. I'm just too dang tired of continuing to type. Hopefully another member will convince you of this.

 

Why all the arguments about fmcsa? He says he's staying in state, so he needs to look at the state rules regarding cdls and commercial vehicles, not federal.

 

I hope the OP posts their location. I would be interested in knowing how his state intrastate law is.