Exposing log book tricks

Sorry, Dynosaur, you are wrong. He is talking about Intrastate, not Interstate....

"You may not drive for more than 12 hours following 8 consecutive hours off duty."

"You may not drive after having been on duty for 15 hours. You may perform work, except for driving, after being on duty for 15 hours."

"You are not eligible to drive after having been on duty for 80 hours in any 8 consecutive day period or if transporting farm products after having been on duty 112 hours in any consecutive 8-day period."

"
After driving for 12 hours or being on duty for 15 hours, you may not drive again until you have had 8 consecutive hours off duty.
Exception: If the truck is equipped with a sleeper berth, these 8 hours may be broken up into 2 periods provided neither period is less than 2 hours."


"You may drive an additional 2 hours if you encounter adverse weather conditions which were not apparent at the start of the trip.
Regardless of the adverse conditions, you are not allowed to drive for more than 14 hours or after having been on duty more than 15 hours."


http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/sec1_a.htm

Just look at the table close to a bottom of the page

 

I'd like to share an experience of mine with you drivers about what happens when you disregard hours of service.

I was hauling tankers thru the Western 11, my dispatcher cared nothing for DOT regs, he just wanted you to get it done. I, being a new hire and wanting to be the "Go to Guy", ran hard and got lots of pats on the back. I was running up to 6,000 miles a week. Anyway, having just returned from Los Angeles, with no sleep, I picked up a refinery load (HAZMAT/Flammable) in Sacramento, took it to San Francisco, where I handled some personal business and left for Los Angeles around 5 pm. I had a 7 am delivery time. By the time I hit Santa Nella I was nodding off. I stopped at Kettleman City and got four hours sleep. Started out again at about midnight and almost immediately found myself nodding off. I was going to pull over at the I-5/99 split and get a few more hours sleep and the hell with the delivery time, but just past Bakersfield I nodded of for the last time and woke to find myself on the shoulder. I tried to get the truck back on the pavement but as soon as the steering wheel hit the road the truck jack-knifed at 65 mph and then my worst fears were coming to pass as the truck went over, and over, and over. It rolled three times. It was a Peterbilt, and had pop-out windshields, so everytime it went onto the roof just loads of dirt came blasting in. All the while this was happening, wondering whethter it was EVER going to stop I was terrified the load was going to explode. Obviously it didn't. But I can tell you this, there were no pats on the back, no "Good Job, George! Way to go!". It's a lonely feeling when you're broke, in Bakersfield, with no way home. And believe me, it was a good while before I got behind the wheel. Today, if I am an hour away, I'll fudge the books, but back-to-back loads---no way. I never want to experience that again

 

I know, I read it again after posting, but it was so convoluted I didn't want to try to correct it. Basically, what I was try to say was you get no more drive time in California than any other state, but that seems not to be true. How it stated by California is"...[California] Drivers of commercial vehicles must be in compliance with the hours of service requirements of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Title 49, and the California Code of Regulations."

Further, no state law my supersede a federal law, but they may enact additional safety and driving regulations. Also,opting to use the 60 hr/7 day, or 70 hr/8 day is determined by whether a company operates 7 days a week, not dictated by state law. So, while an intrastate driver CAN drive 12 hours, that doesn't mean that an OTR driver can cross into California and gain an hour of drive time

So, to be honest, at this point I'm not sure how it all pans out, but I still believe that to say "California's laws are better" is in the first place comparing apples to oranges, and in the second having lived in this miserable state for close to 60 yrs, not true.

 

There are people on this forum that are more qualified to answer, but, my understanding is that Federal HOS do not apply to intrastate.
I am probably wrong, as always, but I try....

 

Within a 100 mile radius (local driving) you are not required to keep a log because driving locally it is all but impossible to exceed the 11 hour drive time.

it is?wow so them 16-18 hour days i did driving a log truck and dump truck were doing the impossible huh?

 

With loose-leaf log books,
ANYthang is possible.

Driver: I'm outta hours.

Dispatcher: The solution to that problem can be purchased
at most any truck stop for under a dollar.

 

You missed my point. First off, it's not calculus, if your exceed the 15 hour rule (18 is bigger than 15) you're running illegal. Drivers who run in a 100-mile radius can't hardly drive 12 hours, I mean actually drive, when you are loading you're "on-duty not driving". Further, off-duty time for lunch, coffee, or whatever counts against the 15 hours, once started the 15 hours doesn't stop. So, if you are driving locally 12 hours, that leaves you 3 hours for lunch, coffee, fuelling, loading, and whatever. Every time the truck stops, it's on-duty not driving. Were you to drive 12 hours you'd cover an average 600 miles per day. So, yeah, I guess if you only loaded your log, or dump truck once or twice a day and delivered the same. Aww, what's the use, you're not gonna get it anway.

I do have to say I was hasty in that I did not take into account intrastate linehaul driver that certainly can, and do, log 12 hrs drive time.

 

In the California Department of Motor Vehicles Handbook it is stated as follows: "...[California] Drivers of commercial vehicles must be in compliance with the hours of service requirements of the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Title 49, and the California Code of Regulations." I don't understand how that can be possible. But, I agree with you 100%. There are no doubt others on this forum more qualified to answer logbook questions. After 15 yrs of driving I still find it confusing.

I did fail, in starting this whole mess, to take into account the fact that there are certainly differences in intrastate, interstate, and 100-mile radius. I misinterpreted Arigo's comment about California hours of service being better than other states. I failed to see that what he was really saying intrastate rules are better, in his opinion, than interstate (and I still may be wrong about what he meant). But, I owe him an apology for being so quick to 'enlighten' him when I can use some enlightenment myself.

 

It is also my understanding that if a driver stays within a single state then the state hos apply, but if you drive out of state then the federal hos come into play. Most states just use the federal regulation, but the "The Land of Fruits and Nuts" seems to think they know better than anyone else how things should be done.

If you stay within 100 miles of your home terminal, return daily to the terminal and your day is no more than 12 hours then your company can choose to keep a time sheet instead of having you keep a log book. I don't know how many companies do this since it really limits what they can do.

 

"I believe the only way to address the hos problems is to compensate the drivers for ALL their time spent on the job. If they are waiting to be loaded, they get paid. If they are fueling the truck, they get paid. If they inspect the truck or get repairs done, they get paid. In short, if the driver is away from home and in that truck, responsible for the truck and/or the contents of the trailer he needs to be compensated."

I have had several disagreements with jlkklj777 in the recent past. But, in this instance, his post can be considered the 'gospel!' It is right on point - 100%! I have made the same point in a different fashion many times within this forum in the past. I submit an extremely simple, but sublime arithmetic calculation... If one calculates all the time the driver spends working in/on/around the truck, (eating, working, sleeping, waiting for loads, waiting to unload, babysitting the truck; roughly 168 hours in a week) divided by his/her gross pay, it equates to close to HALF of what a high school kid would earn while he/she works the fryer at McDonald's for the same amount of time. Of course, this is due primarily to the differences in what labor law applies/doesn't apply (such as overtime rules) to the driver. Conversely, the responsibility of moving such large volumes of freight with expensive equipment and exposure to extreme levels of danger is probably about 100 time’s in excess of what the high school kid is exposed to at McDonald's as well.
Also, Socy Student, I have 2 questions: 1) I was a grad student at one time as well and would like to know if you are incorporating the pertinent information garnered here for a working, ongoing graduate project, or an academic thesis? 2) With the current pay offerings for people with Social Services-related Masters Degrees in this economy, how long do you think it will be before you, yourself, apply to one of the larger trucking companies for your CDL?