Propane injection on big cam cummins?

Yes.

No, but I know people who used it on small cam back in the day. PT-injectors can/will be problematic if you go to wild on the propane.

Depends how you use it, and how long you want the engine to live.

I don't have time now to write a lot, leaving for airport in few minutes.
I'll get back to you later

 

Lookin' for that blue flame out the pipes, hey? Years ago, it was propane that got some over the hill,,,today, fuel is expensive enough without blowing propane out the stacks. You want to blow 'er up, just hit the ether button,,,

 

you mean something like this..

ECO SHOT : LPG for Diesels

Was quite common 10 (or so) yrs ago, But not so much Now..

 

Pistons are fragile enough without using an extra fuel that can lean out the combustion even more.

Why is everyone looking for a bandaid?

If you want more power buy a different truck instead of doing something ridiculous and then blaming the engine when it fails.

 

You're adding more fuel so obviously it can and most likely will give you more power. The problem with propane is it has less energy per gallon than diesel so even though your diesel fuel mileage is going to go up, you're burning more propane to do it and you'd be lucky to break even.

 

I am travelling at the moment, and I don't have all the information with me. But some/most of it is in my head anyway.

Main question is: what are you trying to achieve: more power, or lower fuel cost?

First of all, some general information:
Yes, propane can be used, but is not a very good fuel to use in a diesel engine.
Propane is much more knock-sensitive than natural gas, and the tendency for the engine to detonate is much larger than with natural gas.
The engine will survive a short light detonation, but sustained detonation will detroy the engine very fast.

Natural gas has much higher octane rating, and much lower tendency to knock. Therefor a larger quantity of diesel can be replaced with the natural gas, than would be possible with propane. This makes natural gas a much better fuel for use in a diesel engine.


I have been heavily involved with these kind of systems for many years. Diesel-propane, but mostly diesel-natural gas. We sold over the years a total about 5000 systems.
About 400 of these are diesel-propane systems and were installed worldwide, rest diesel-cng systems, mostly CNG, some LNG.
Many of these systems are on electronic engines, which makes it much easier to control, about 2000 systems (CNG) were installed on mechanical engines.

Engine brands, oa: Cummins, Detroit, Cat, Scania, Volvo, DAF/Paccar, Mercedes, Sinotruk, Weichai, Iveco.

Some of the earlier engines now have over 15.000 engine hours with the system in use.


Few examples, pictures I happen to have here on my laptop:
Volvo D13 with propane
(@haycarter may recognize the name on the truck.... there is a different name now)


Russian Kamaz trucks getting CNG-systems installed:




Keep in mind, goal of all these systems is to NOT increase power, but keep power at same level as the original diesel engine. Goal is to replace part of the (expensive) diesel with a cheaper secundary fuel.
There are some other benefits, such as somewhat lower CO2 emissions, but for most trucking companies the fuel cost savings are priority #1.


Now back to the original questions:

Is the goal to have more power?
In that case, yes it is possible with propane, but the increase in power is limited, and a lot depends on the original engine. Push it too far, and it will end in tears.

It is addictive. Once you tried 15% extra, you want another 5%, and another 5%.
Is it for short periods of time, or for longer durations?
If a (too) large quantity of propane is injected for extended periods, the in-cylinder temperatures and pressures may rise up to the point where detonation starts. After that, it will soon be over.

The pyrometer may give an indication of the higher temperatures, but it will NOT give an idication of the detonation that may be going on, unnoticed.
Even if there is no detonation, cylinder pressures will still be higher than original, and just like with a diesel engine with the fuel turned up, and no other changes, you may still push it over the limit.

I don't know how much power you have now, or how much you want?
If it is power you are after, I think there are better ways.

Another thing to ask yourself: How solid is my engine?
If you want to increase power you better make sure your engines is in good condition. If it is not, you will soon find the weak points, doesn't matter if you use propane, or just turn up the pump,or install larger injectors.



Now if you want to save on fuel cost, with same power or small gain in power, things may look different.
Depending on how the truck is used (stop-go, long distance, etc?), you may be safely reducing your diesel fuel consumption by about 20-25% on average. In some applications a bit more, in many applications less than that.
Keep in mind that for every gallon of diesel you save, you will burn about 1.4 gallons of propane.

As mentioned earlier, the diesel replacement ratio with natural can be much higher than with propane, but the system (mainly the cilinders/tanks) will be a lot more expensive.

A quick calculation using cost of the system, diesel consumption, propane and diesel prices, and miles you expect to drive, will give you an indication about he pay-back period.
When do you break even, when did the system pay for itself?
When will you start making money using the system?

I get a lot of request from all over the world, and in many cases the price difference between diesel and propane or natural gas is just not good enough to justify the investment.

Another thing to keep in mind:
I'm not familiar with the legal side of things in the USA for the older trucks.
I was involved in getting EPA approval for a system for the newer trucks, and it is a very long and costly procedure.
If EPA-approval is required for you, you better forget about the idea altogether.

If you want to know more, just ask, or send PM.

 

If anything, what about Hydrogen?

 

Um, I don't know about that,,

 

If always wonder if people who think hydrogen powered vehicles is a good idea have ever heard of the Hindenburg?