Off duty vs sleeper berth

Like I said in my last comment! I agree with you on the basic concept. Yes, there are state laws about driving so tired you are all over the road. A driver can be held both legally and civilly for this. I agree. MY point is from a regulatory standpoint there are no rules mandating this. I did not say an Attorney can't go after a driver in my last comment. I said an Attorney will have a problem with the regulatory aspect of this. These are two different dynamics.

 

It says “supporting documents in the drivers possession.”
It doesn’t say “ a driver must have supporting documents of where they stayed the night before”
The documents they are referring to are government dot mandated documents such as bills of ladling, hazmat documents and so on.
If you don’t have a document saying you stayed at a friends house there is no document in your possession for a dot officer to ask for.

 

Did you not read my comment in full? I took careful time to note about that in the driver's possession part. I know this. I also went on to state NO rule requires you to stay in a hotel. I am on record about staying quiet when being asked for information by a cop. This also applies to this as well. As @Brandt pointed out, in an extream situation these records may well be something that might be subject to a subpoena by either the FMCSA or an Attorney, but absolutely NOT in regards to checking roadside compliance. I actually only brought the subject of 395.11 up because I have seen some safety critters use it about hotels etc etc.

 

At the end of the day it’s non issue because they have no right to ask you about off duty time.
Just like they have no right to asked what you did or where you stayed when you have time off before you start your week.
Hotshots operate taking off duty without documentation every day of the week without issue.
Anything could be subpoenaed if some lawyer wanted to and a judge allowed it but if you stayed with a friend/girl friend no such document exists?

 

way back when I was doing repos I was confronted by a DOT officer at the Hope Arkansas scale. I had picked up a repo in Corsicana Texas and was driving it to Little Rock. The officer pulled me in and did a quick check on my legals. I had flown into DFW the day before and the officer was checking to see if I had properly taken my break as required by the then travel time rules. All he wanted was to see my hotel receipt and I was on my way. I think this rule was removed after 395 was last changed.

 

@Moose1958 thanks for the tag, sorry I am late to the party, busy week!

The supporting document rule is more for audits at the office than roadside enforcement, however if the officer sees a reciept or other item with relevance to your hours of service in plain sight he may ask, and you must show it to him.

Speaking of audits, now that we have the ELD mandate there are very specific rules on what is a supporting document and how many must be retained by the motor carrier. Previously it was vague about what was a supporting document.

There is no rule that says thou shall sleep, only a prohibition against driving ill or fatgued. So, legally yes a driver could stay up and hang out with friends for their 10 hour break and be legal to drive if they do not believe themselves to be fatigued. Drivers are under no obligation to prove they slept or even explain how their off-duty time was spent unless they are claiming the travel time exception that allows for some time that is usually on-duty to be logged off-duty. This is usually only used by driveaway companies.

Now, when a crash happens and lawyers get involved then all bets are off!

As for off-duty in a day cab or pickup truck, again perfectly legal since the inception of the 30 minute break and the change to the definition of on-duty time to exclude resting in or on a parked CMV.

As for sleeper berth in the back seat of a pickup, not legal unless it has been converted to meet the sleeper berth dimension and safety equipment requirements. Now, that said, a driver can log off-duty while sleeping across the seat and be legal. In reality logging sleeper berth has no advantage unless you need to use an 8/2 split to make a crazy schedule, so for most it is not an issue.

Lastly, if you do have a sleeper and use it, make sure you log it as you do it. Logging off-duty in a sleeper can be interpreted by roadside officers as false log. There is no official guidance either way on this so it is up to officer interpretation.

 

WOW just WOW.
So an officer can just make up laws as they want.

 

Go read my post #27 in this thread. YES, cops will do that crap. It makes me want to throw things I get so dang angry. Then the carriers refuse to back the driver and fight these statists in court!

 

There is no guidance as it really cannot be plainer in the regs.
1. (e)(1) No driver or motor carrier may make a false report in connection with a duty status.
2. (2) Sleeper berth. A continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time off duty resting in a sleeper berth, as defined in §395.2.

I.e. if you are in the sleeper, you must log sleeper.

 

I agree, couldn't be plainer
''Off duty resting in a sleeper birth''