18 spd vs 15spd/9LL

My right shoulder is in rough shape, so I hate shifting all day at this point in my life.
Mdrive automatic is great.

 

Allison are great til you have a failed speed sensor that puts you in limp mode, a $3000 dollar heat exchanger that fails and takes out the $10,000 dollar transmission, and a $9,000 rebuild between 400,000 and 500,000 in a dump truck in my experiences.

 

For me, I don't own trucks anymore. Had well enough of that since the 70's. The truck I drove last year with an Allison had over 600k on it. The only problem was a sensor that caused a very hard 2-1 downshift. A pretty cheap fix. If I got a new Allison today, I would never put 500-600k on it before I retired.

All that aside, I can see your point as a owner, but today's drivers are demanding automatics as they get older and more worn out, and the new drivers tear up manuals. 5-600k on a dump truck takes a long time to achieve, and the cost of clutches, input shafts, drive lines, ect, will pay for a lot of repairs on a manual, not to mention driver retention and satisfied drivers.

If I were to buy new tomorrow, it would be Allison with no second thoughts. I have driven Mack M Drive, and now drive Eaton Ultrashift Plus 8LL vocational transmission in a new truck with only 21k on it. Neither compare to an Allison in what I do. The guys with huge mountains and pulling equipment would need a manual, but I don't.

I have driven an 18 speed in a dump and loved it, but not as much as the Allison. I guess it's an age thing, and worn out joints with arthritis.

 

BTW, I'm enjoying everyone's opinion of what does best for them. Everyone has their favorite that works best for them, and I like hearing their opinion of why it does. A person can learn a lot that way.

 

Yea I totally get that. These trucks do take a toll on you over the years.

 

There are 2 things I initially didn't like about the 8LL that I found awesome remedies for.

I actually at first hated the 8LL because it felt geared too high in every situation. I liked overdrive some but was too stupid to know it at the time.

I didn't learn how important overdrive was until I found myself chasing automatics down the interstate to the quarries or asphalt plant empty to get another load in our old Pete 10 speed that likes 55 MHP. You know how that turned out. They ghosted me! POOF! Gone!

Anyhow the 8LL in the KW that I drive today felt geared too high for the slow turns in high range and geared to high starting off in first. And low is too low if you want to get through the light.

After driving a 10 speed for years in the Pete dump and Lowboy tractor I could always go into the lowest high range gear to make most turns or get through red lights that turn green before I get stopped without flipping into low range. That would be 6th gear.

With the 8LL loaded 5th is its lowest in high range and usually its too tall of a gear in those situations.
It took me a while and I found it by accident one day due to 10 speed habits.

The 8LL doesn't say on the gear pattern that their is a gear far back and left like the 6th gear of the 10 speed. There is one there and its 200 RPMs lower than than 4th gear in low range. Its even more perfect for making turns than the 10 speeds 6th gear and I use the hidden gear daily.

And of course the other one I've mentioned already.
Starting in 1st low at the light then flipping into 1st normal is really sweet. 1st gear loaded is a hard start.

I had to use LL reverse all day yesterday for a grader who's cutting in a new driveway. Some property got split up and sold and there's not enough driveways.

I was pulling in the old drive and going in about 600 feet and backing up a hill into the woods onto the new road and dumping. They actually put two pipes in on undisturbed ground and built the dirt up 18 inches above those and kept climbing.

 

I don't know about the 8LL but using that "hidden" gear on a 13 or 18 is a good way to kill the transmission.

 

I've been using that hidden gear quite a while now without issues. You have to be careful because its sort of out of sync with all the other gearing.

I think the issue folks might have is they don't realize how low that gear is. Its actually about a 3.5 gear in high range that doesn't fit into a 5 thru 8th world.

The only place its worth a darn is turning in fully loaded without going into low range. Its actually perfect more perfect than 6th ever was in a 10 speed.

It takes 200 more RPM to shift into that gear leaving 4th and I bet its the same on the 13's and 18's.

To make that 3.5 gear work nicely you have to be going a good bit slower than you would in a10 speed grabbing 6th.

Best thing I ever learned was not to rev it and jam it.
Rev and feel for it slowly, listen to the cogging to slow way down.

 

Way it was explained to me on the 13's and 18's is that it puts a lot of stress on a gearset that isn't rated for that kind of useage in high range. I haven't tore into an 18 in over 7 years so I'm a bit foggy on them.

 

Could just shift 200 rpm higher, and still grab the next gear right in the meat of the powerband. Sometimes it isn't practical to short shift, just let them spin.