$2800 log book violation ticket

who ever fills out a logbook anyway.....less they know they are gonna find a big truck cop?

take it to court, win and make that scalehound look like donkey-doo.....it might just, maybe take some of these know-it-alls down a notch


and no DB, im not belittleing you....i happen to know a FEW very good DOT bears, havent met you yet, but im sure i will one day

 

Thanks Dieselbear I knew you'd come through!
Now as I said fight this! CSA2010 is almost here and this ticket is one of the biggies they will count!

If you don't get a lawyer versed in DOT rules and regulations (check with OOIDA) then YOU need to prepare your case yourself. I know you've watched a few court shows you kind of know what goes on, so be prepared and write it down the way you want to present it to the JUDGE or jury and practice in front of the mirror or as you drive down the road. Also keep a legal pad next to you and write down questions as you think of then DO NOT RELY ON YOUR MEMORY! Even in court write them down. The DA goes first then you get to defend your self then the DA gets another crack at you! BUT when on the stand you are defending yourself so keep your pad next to you and write it down! They understand.

Have your FMCSA book and 2 copies of the whole section of 395 and anything else you can think of (1 for the judge and 1 for the DA) Me, I would get 2 extra copies of the book along with the copies and that way they have the whole ball of wax! Plead NOT GUILTY and they will ask if you want a jury trial or abide by the judges decision. Whichever you want. Usually the judge is smart enough to read an HOS book and see where it doesn't say anything about at midnight! Just keep pointing out "LAST CHANGE OF DUTY STATUS!" You were good on that point. Also make a point that if you had gotten your page ready BEFORE 1200 midnight and had gotten stopped before 1200 you could have gotten a ticket for falsifying your book as it would be ahead of time. Stress that stopping your truck at midnight just to get your book to that day when you had a PLANNED stop at such and such would have lost you TIME (the 15 minutes line 4) and cost you or the company extra fuel just for this stop that so and so officer said you had to do. Also note that with the amount of trucks on the road if that was the rule then there would be trucks stopping on the shoulders of the road just to start a new page in the book causing "large scale" hazardous situations as they might not be close to a truck stop OR rest area!

Take everything you need to court and yes you HAVE to go to THAT court on the ticket. Call them NOW (Monday) and make sure you have correct dates and times and show up. If the officer does NOT show up (it's happened) they CAN continue the case to another day and YOU must object to it and state that you drove so and so many miles from wherever and spent such and such amount of money to get there and are losing how much from lost wages and the ONLY continuance you will except is enough time for the officer to get there and you tell the court (BE RESPECTFUL!) that an hour and a half is enough time and if not then request the court rules in your favor!

I've done this and won! Just PRACTICE your speech and don't go in there talking like you don't know what you're talking about! I've seen drivers kill their own defense because they just showed up and had no clue! And PLEASE dress in respect of the court! Tshirts and jeans don't cut it! Slacks, shirt and a tie. Jacket if you have it! Sweats, Baseball cap? ROFL, just pay the ticket!

It just hit me. Go to the FMCSA site or call them and see if there is a place you can ask the BIG BOYS there if you have to have your page done at 1200 and tell them you problem and can they send the information pertaining to it to you. It couldn't hurt just ask if they can notarize it for court.

Let us know!

Good luck
Rollover

 

Good info Rollover.

(I'm not a lawyer so take everything with a grain of salt. Use at your own risk. This is not legal advice)

I'd also like to point out that if you decide to go Pro Se (representing yourself), remember that the courts deal on the facts and the law. They don't care if you feel that it is fair or not. A well-crafted legal document can be tough to write because you often start mixing emotion with the relevant facts and law. The law is what is written and the law, in your case, is decided by the judge. Your goal is to present an argument the state can not refute and present it in such a way that the judge considers your interpretation of the law better than the state's.

Before you plead:

Put your case in order. Get copies of the DOT code on logging and start preparing to become an 'expert' or at least present yourself as an expert. Show the court that you know the law (even if you really only learned it after the fact).

Go to the state's judicial branch site and see if they have access to state case law. You'll need to find a source for DOT case-law at the federal level as well. Case law is very important because the courts are driven on the laws on the books and the precedent of decisions made by the courts. You need to find cases that compliment your counterargument to the citation given. If you can not find any at all, or you find cases that strengthen the state's side of events, note it, bookmark it, flag it, do whatever you have to do. Read through the case and try to suck in as much information as possible. To adequately defend yourself, you have to have some armor to protect against whatever weapon they choose to throw at you.

Case law is helpful to know because you will learn just how the court interprets the laws. You then weave case law into your argument by citing the case law and illustrating how it applies to your case. If you are in a state court, state law super-cedes federal unless you have a reasonable argument that the actual law the state claims is broken is federal in nature. If this is the case, federal law is what is in question, you might be able to request the case be moved to Federal court because the state lacks jurisdiction to determine federal law.

Now you need to draft three things:

1. Draft a point-by-point explanation of the events leading up to and including the citation. It should be pretty mundane - something like:

.... you can come back and clean it up to make it look pretty later. Just lay out the facts as objectively as possible. Keep it brief, but factually loaded. This way, you have a written version of the events. Any testimony, anything you said or did, will possibly be considered evidence that should match your version of events.

2. You need to be proactive and start drafting a Motion for Dismissal. Find some case law where a Motion for Dismissal was crafted. Clone the structure of the document (just not the actual case word for word) so you can have a reasonable motion to file. Remember, you want it dismissed completely.

3. Start writing your defense with as much backing case law and references to the existing laws as you can. You don't need to finish it yet, but now is a good time to get started organizing your notes to build up your defense.

Time to Plead:

After you plead 'Not Guilty', they'll want to set a trial date. Try to get it pushed out to give you time to both work your job and on the case. Request the judge set a date greater than 1-2 months out so that you have adequate time to schedule time off. As soon as the judge dismisses the court, you need to do one more thing while you're at the courthouse. Before the Prosecutor leaves, hand them a copy of your motion for dismissal. Then you need to go file the motion for dismissal with the court. You might even be able to file it before you plead. Check with the state courts on judicial procedure.

If this all continues, you'll eventually hit a phase called "Discovery" where the prosecutor will probably demand your records and a whole bunch of information. Never give them anything that is not relevant to the case. If they request a week of your logs, you deny their request formally through the court and offer only the logs for the date of record. You don't want to give them any more evidence outside of what is specifically needed for this case. You can tie up the courts for a while going back and forth over items. At the same time, you can bury the state in demands:
1) have the state produce all tickets written by officers of the state falling under whatever it is they hit you with
2) demand all of the tickets written by the officer that pulled you over. If you are right and there is a pattern of abuse, you can use this later to show the officer ill trained in the law

Just keep digging for information. Even if you don't think it might pertain to your case, request it anyway. The worst that happens is that the Prosecutor will deny it and then you fight over it.

You might even consider writing up a civil case. If the issue is flagrant ignorance of the law, you might just be able to sue the state if you win the case. You sue the state and the officer for unlawful detention. But wait on it because you'll have a buttload of paperwork for one case to be doing.

All this said - be careful. Going Pro Se is extremely risky. You will possibly lose the right to appeal due to ignorance or poor representation because you chose not to have representation. It is a butt load of work to say the least but it can be managed.

Most people might think this would be way too much work. And most people are right. It is a lot of work. But if you're like me and you like to hold the system to the same standards of accountability that the citizens are held to, then fight like there is no tomorrow. Learn the process and learn how to use the process in your favor. Even if you lose, they lose because it will cost them more in the long term to drag this through the courts. It will cost you. But maybe next time, the prosecutor might just learn to choose not to prosecute such silly things.

Oh, and if you do talk to the prosecutor - don't talk about the events at all. You can point to some of your research and backing case law. Point out that the officer was incorrect and that you will only accept a full dismissal. Keep it polite and friendly but firm. Don't threaten them with a civil suit but you can state that you are willing to keep all options open including a civil suit due to the unlawful interference in your commercial affairs.

* Stopping you counts against your DOT HOS
* Stopping you costs additional fuel and expense for starting and stopping the vehicle
* The citation is invalid and is an undue burden put on you by the state at your own expense
* The citation can cause pain and suffering due to the stress of the regulatory structure and the burden a citation can place on your employment record.

Remember - factual and a little bit of creativity doesn't hurt. Just don't go overboard and sue for a couple billion. Make it a reasonable request based on the actual damages that occurred.

 

Yeah! What he said!^^^

Or get a lawyer and give him a copy of the above post and tell him anything less that a dismissal wont get the cake! Especially if the officer in question has a history of writing these "no show" tickets! Then you might have a class action against him and his section! You WANT this to stop and this will get it stopped as the county does NOT want to go through this much expense!

 

I'm no expert but I would think that if a determined bear was looking for something he could very well hit you up for some sort of falsification of logs with this.

 

I pointed that out earlier. What you COULD do is when stopped fill it out real quick THEN walk in! You ARE changing your duty status when you walk into the scale house. Actually I don't see where you could get into trouble if you put date, truck and load info on the log just don't draw a line till you stop or like me learn to draw lines as the truck is rolling to a stop! I do keep one of those clip boards that suction cups to the windshield and at 1200 I do write the miledge down.

 

Technically, YES, you SHOULD have "updated" your log at every "Change of Duty Status"..........or when you pulled into the scale and went from line 3 to line 4 (Driving to On Duty/Not Driving).
HOWEVER, the Officer has the OPTION to allow you to "catch up" on your logs.

 

When he was "called" for inspection, his "DUTY" changed from DRIVING to ON DUTY/NOT DRIVING.

 

No way to update if the DOT officer takes the log book at the scale and tells you to park.

Therefore the duty has not changed.

 

Well, kind of hard for the State of Nevada to convict you or find you not guilty for an offense that occurred in New Mexico. And if you are convicted, make sure you pay the fine and related costs. New Mexico will issue a warrant from a traffic violation. Had a guy today that was wanted for a $275 radar detector fine that wasnt paid.