9+ MPG Class 8 5 Axel Trucks with Trailers

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by Dice1, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. Dice1

    Dice1 Road Train Member

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    The CAT scales at the Pilot at exit 39 on I-85 in Charlotte, NC that is about 2 miles from Snider Tire was only 160 lbs difference weighed with in 2 hours before and after tires were swapped. Only had to pay $1 dollar for the re-weigh.

    I heard around 400 lbs for the swap from 8 to 4.

    200 lbs would have been real close if I had went with the smaller 445/50R22.5s instead of the heavier 455/55R22.5s.
     
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  3. Quiettime

    Quiettime Bobtail Member

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    Scania Man, what other tricks do the euros use that us Yanks do not?
     
  4. Scania man

    Scania man Road Train Member

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    As regards fuel economy there's not many big differences at all actually, I think what Europeans are good at is putting all these small things together, aerodynamics is a big thing here, axle layout is very important, you usually only see one drive axle, this cuts down on frictional losses and weight, rear steer is getting popular to save tyre wear and also improves handling especially on wet and slippery roads, axle spreads are shorter, we don't have bridge laws and this improves manoeuvrability , single wheels instead of doubles reduce drag. trailers are kept close to the cab for aerodynamics , coe's are also better for economy.

    Dice has made some modifications that puts his fuel return figures comparable to most trucks here so it is quite possible to be as good as anything here although scania's modern engine and gearboxes have taken a leap forward again, new engines are low revving high torque engines, for instance the 730 hp has the sweet spot at only 1000 rpm and giving 11 mpg euro( roughly 9.4 us)@ 97,000lbs, not bad from such a big engine ( I wonder what mr Haney could do with it? 13 mpg? 1400 hp???) their gear boxes too can change gear in a millisecond and is so smooth u can't feel the changes .

    The only big difference I see is safety, here it's disc brakes with ebs, this can stop a fully loaded truck as quick as an average family car ( shorter when empty) also they don't skid or jacknife in the wet, they are also Alot lighter than drums, retarders give unmatched downhill speed control which is integrated into the cruise control and the gearbox ( select your speed and the truck stays at that speed up or downhill without driver intervention, active cruise control also matches the speed of traffic automatically, traffic stops, you stop! All automatic)
     
  5. nevesu

    nevesu Heavy Load Member

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    It all agrees, the problem is, that 730 wasn't made to last longer than 4-5 years, your out of leasing, and they want you to take another one. You can keep the truck, but you can't be sure, that it will be problem-free. That auto transmission is great, when it's working, but may be pain in the ### to fix it. You can drive at 1000 RPM, but as you can imagine, it's not the best idea, if you wan't to drive it forever.

    There's a great drop in reliability. My mate owns a fleet of around 35 Dafs. They mostly drive to Russia, so the Euro norm, doesn't matter that much. Old machines could (till Euro3) easily do 1 milion miles, and then they needed fist overhaul. Newest 105 hardly reach 600 000 kilometers! Which is only around 375 000 miles. You Americans were lucky enough to get newer generation of Paccar MX engine, first models had great oil consumption. How much ? Even around 12 liters, for every 1.5-2 thousand kilometers!

    But I guess that is all caused by stupid ecological ########, and it's the same thing in America.

    We still don't use Euro6 (EPA 2010) engines, and having EGR, SCR and DPF at same time may be interesting ...
     
  6. 98989

    98989 Road Train Member

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    i agree with most of what did you write

    but potential savings with extra fast transmission can save you so much money that you will not be interesting does it can make 20% more millage or less

    you will sold it already

    also lower internal friction can maybe even improve engine life

    personally i would not chose 730 even if i need it

    it is 90kg heavier common rail is still new thing for our bad fuel

    it require only full synthetic oil and need 10L more of it

    if you spec very long driveline ( for example 2.92 overdrive and 315/70) average 620 ( 3.4 overdrive 315/70) can outperform it in hills

    it is also big money in game for 730

    as for long transmission

    in my country we have very flat and very hilly terrain so you need fast and slow truck in one

    also here lot of operators drive off highway

    so people buy everything from 3.08+315/70(1450rpm at 89) to 2.92 overdrive and 315/70(<1100rpm at 89)

    it is hard to get right specification

    now r500 with 2.59diff and 315/70 get best possible fuel economy in heavy highway operation 33.4L with 40t loaded in both direction

    usually competition get up to 40L on same route

    but engine struggle off highway
     
  7. 98989

    98989 Road Train Member

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    i find out that 42.5t 440hp scania with 6x2 wheel formula at 100kmh use 12.5% less fuel than same truck with 6x4

    (r780 2.71:1 direct drive gearbox and 295/80tires)

    other one

    rb662+r660 3.42:1 overdrive gearbox and same tires)
    twins on trailer and tag

    this is most accurate comparison so far (usually hard to find same specs same condition route and weight...)

    weight benefit is 400kg ~900lbs because it has twin usually it is more than 600kg

    edit: and both were rated at 90000kg
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2011
    Scania man Thanks this.
  8. nevesu

    nevesu Heavy Load Member

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    To be honest. All the little numbers, which you can put into your spreadsheet doesn't really matter that much. I once calculated it. Newest Stralis got avg. consumption of 27 liters driving in Poland which is known for having almost no highways at all. And everyone said, great, another way to save your money. No. See, when I tried to calculate, how much fuel I can save, by buying that Iveco, in 4 years it was around 15 thousand euro. And i was like, great, that's a lot of money! But then, I realised, that new Iveco costs around 63 thousand euro. And you need to buy one every 4-5 years. Money you saved today, is nothing, compared to what you will need to spend tomorrow. There's just no way, you can buy something that is cheaper, more efficient, aerodynamic, it simply doesn't matter. What does, is having a truck which is simply reliable. That's why I admire all those guys who keep their 90's and even 80's trucks till today. You may think, that they lose money, no they dont't. When you put all those little numbers in your Excel thing, you could really earn more, than they do. But once in a while, you will need to change your truck. And they don't. And here's were your "efficent" money is gone.

    There's simply no way, you can make money in transport by buying cheapest stuff.

    And to be honest, when fuel consumption is your biggest concern, think about changing job.

    I know it my sound harsh for you European fellas (I'm Euro guy too) but just think about it. And see how much money you could get, by having a Scania 730, which lasts as much, as old 3 serie did.
     
  9. 98989

    98989 Road Train Member

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    anyway new eco norms will make you to change truck every few years

    it is no longer possible to have euro4 here and be competitive

    i have 1987 mercedes (4axle tipper)

    but we did only local routes in city where new and old trucks have similar fuel economy but on longer routes where fuel is 60-70% transport price

    driving truck with 40L/100km is not same as having one with 30....


    it is true than no new truck will last same as old ones but old are almost extinct all are worn out and running them can cost pretty much

    my mercedes is almost all stock

    clutch is replaced 2years ago

    last winter rear differential was broke because of heavy duty work with lot of mud but only smaller brakedown but there is no too much similar trucks
     
  10. nevesu

    nevesu Heavy Load Member

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    The Euro 6 norm will come in 2014, you think it will change anything ? There's no Euro7 norm coming, so we should be able, to keep them forever.

    I see E5 trucks for sale now, and you can still use them.

    Why is that ? That's becouse they started breaking down, even before newer Euro norm came.
     
  11. 98989

    98989 Road Train Member

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    this is true 2005 truck should be changed for new one it is cheaper to pay leasing than repair truck

    but i am talking that keeping e2 norm is no longer possible

    that trucks that were more quality than todays are no longer in shape
     
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