Another CB Shop Gets Busted By The FCC...

Well Gadfly, based on your user ID and attitude, I have to ask... are you just a cranky old man or what? You are talking about things as they were 30 YEARS ago.

First off this is a truckers forum. Harmonics are NO ISSUE from a passing vehicle. A momentary blurb on your radio? With the advent of cable TV being everywhere... Not a lot of RF interference is heard these days. I have personal experience with this. In my area there are several Private car services that use out of band CB's and high power amps instead of the standard, more expensive Motorola commercial systems. They used to park outside my front window while between calls and talk on the radios. Occasionally I could hear a bit of interference so I politely asked if they wouldn't mind parking doen the block near the railroad tracks. They said no problem. That was over a year ago and no problems since. It was much more efficient than the FCC ever was.

Yes many hams complain. But they are often the worst offenders. Sure their equipment is better but does that give them the right to operate it on the CB bands at the full power output of their amateur transceiver? However they are very fast to report the other guy (admittedly often a CB'er) operating out of band or with too much power. Truth be told the FCC does not do much monitoring of the CB bands. They, themselves, have openly admitted this. They investigate complaints made and are relatively slow to act.

Another piece of misinformation in your post is all those "reserved" channels that are being interfered with. That is an old myth that is still perpetuated today. They A channels once reserved for RC models have long been abandoned for 49 MHz FM channels. Some RC stuff are even now controlled by 800 Mhz smart phones. Before you quote me a whole bunch of frequencies that are reserved for this and that, tell me which are used. As an avid "free bander"I can tell you I have only heard the car service traffic and other free banders on the channels surrounding the 40 channel band.

As for the military, they long ago abandoned their 27MhZ AM communications for other mode of communications. My son, a 12 year Army vet confirmed this. Interestingly he is a ranger and served numerous combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. What did they use primarily? Commercially available FRS/GMRS radios for unit communications. Long range stuff was satellite equipment for reliability no matter where they were.

That being said, yes it's illegal. Too many watts, free banding. Do it and be prepared to accept the consequences. You might lose your equipment and will probably have a fine to pay. You takes your chances.

If you are home based it is somewhat of a different story. Harmonics can create annoying situations for neighbors that may become intolerable. However the station operator has lots of options clean up their signal. The cheapest non type accepted amp can be "cleaned up" to minimalize possible interference and keep the peace with the folks next door. If you must run more than 50 watts from your base location, consider the purchase of a high quality filter (often referred to as traps) that will reduce interference from your amp. A grounded and well aligned system will also help.

In all the so called interference issue is, for the most part, a non issue. You see I live in one of the most densely populated areas in the world, New York City. I can stand on my roof and see many Ham, commercial and CB antennas. And there is no interference here. You would have a hard time convincing me there is an interference issue in, for instance, Elk Valley Wyoming. I would bet a fair amount of money the citation issued to the Redman CB Stop was initiated by a disgruntled customer, potential customer or self righteous ham. I read the FCC reports often and the ones that specify how the violation was uncovered almost always point to an unhappy individual.

 

Bear, do you even understand what a harmonic is? Harmonics from a CB driven to clipping aren't going to interfere with another CBer. They are going to interfere with services at frequencies well above the CB band. For example, the 5th harmonic of a CB channel falls in the Aircraft band. Make noise there, and the FAA will be knocking at your door... and they don't fool around.

 

CB's not going anywhere, anytime soon...It usually does die-out a bit with the solar cycles, but comes right back once the cycle comes back around and the DX starts picking back up...

However, it will never get back to the way it was in the Mid 70's...Just not "HIgh Tech" enough for today's crowd...

As for no one to talk too...You would be surprised on just how many people are out there to talk to, if you set-up a Base with a good beam or even a ground plane 40-50' up in the air...I didn't think there was that many around me until I set the Base up, and now I pick up guys real easy 40-50+ miles away, and on SSB have been talking to Australia every night on 38lsb.

 

If you read nthe whole post I did not say anything about CB interference and harmonics, though I did mention harmonics from a moving vehicle NOT being a factor. That being said what door is the FCC knocking on? Tjhe door to my truck? Show me where those citations on the FCC site and Ill believe it then.

There were many issuesmbriought up, had you readb all the posts. People being bothered by CB''ers for instance. Point was and still is that there are no longer the number of CBers out there nor do many rely on broadcast services as heavily as they did decades ago.

Read all the posts.... The complaints are wide ranging and the same stuff I heard 30 years ago... When CBers were many more in number and broadcats services were the number one game in town.

Did you realize this is a trucking forum? I would hyave to imagine most here primarily mobile users.... Not much of a problem with interference there.

Free band was mentioned before I posted anything... So I responded... Freeband is another dead issue. I flip aroundalot and rarely hear anything onn thew uppers. Stopped listening below 1 as it was really dead.

Say... you wouldnt be a ham operator would you?

This thread was

 

Not high tech enough? Try channel six, aka the superbowl. I met a guy name Joe a while back, goes by the handle cuz. He had a suburban built out for contesting. Everthing behind the back seat was transistors, batteries and power feeds. Seriously... No hope of ge6tting any cargo back there. His antenna was one of those bouncenback setups. Not really familiar with how they work, have been reading up on it. Not fully understanding but f8indiung it interesting.

Those guys are pretty hard core.... I thyink the folks on 6 (aka the Superbowl) are the niche market driving alot of the hobby. lot of people talk there alot want to but don''t hyave the equipment.

Don''t really want to participate but am fascinated by the few setups I have seen. Funny thing is most of the setups I have seen are Suburbans. It seems those land yachts are the right size to haul the equipment needed. Have the extra space under the hood for multiple alternators too...

I always am interested in peoiple pushing things further than they are supposed to go.... Speaking of sunspots where are we? Thought we were in rthe midst of some high activity? Haven''t read up lately.

 

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". So goes the oft-quoted adage. Sir, you are looking for voice-based communications like...........er uh "CB radio". The military uses many forms of communications. It is not often someone jabbering away in some "secret" code or a bunch of numbers. What YOU will hear is a bleep or a burst of sounds/chirps. THAT can be forms of "packet" (bursts of info sent in short sessions), various forms of teletype (RTTY).

I have explained this before. Military radio uses many types of technology. One is something called ALE (Automatic Link Establishment) Invented by two people in WWII, it was a way to cause the radios to "link" while scrolling thru the entire spectrum at nano-second intervals. It would check each frequency available to see if that frequency could carry the traffic, send a "handshake" signal that would make the other radios in the network lock on without the other operators manually controlling the frequency they were on. Again what YOU would hear when you scan "down below 1" would be something like a "tweeedle-tweedle-teeedle, chirrr-uuup". And done! Sounds like nothing to you, but it is still something to those who use ALE IF there is a bootleg station yap-yapping where they don't belong. BTW, for trivia, google Hedy Lamarr; she was one of the inventors as well as a talented and beautiful actress.

Also, there was long list of trucking companies who DID get slapped by FCC for operating the "10 Meter 'amateur' Radios" ON the 10 Meter band; usually 28.085 AM. Among them were UPS, FedEx, Crete Carriers, United Van Lines....and a long list of companies who were ordered to stop their drivers from operating on that band. You can look them up for yourself in the FCC archives. The Amateurs themselves were able to lock onto these mobile operators, pinpoint their location, and send complaints to FCC. And before you get all defensive, it IS quite simple to do so with rudimentary tools and a bit of patience. Can't catch somebody because he's mobile? Another CB myth. It is very easy, and FCC can do it even easier. Computer technology is amazing.

The things I tell you are the truth. I can't reveal much of my involvement with "other" types of communications. Just know that I have been involved in various comms for many years, I am a ham and an occasional user of CB. To talk TOO much about what I know about the actual communications would violate MilCom OPSEC and get me in trouble. You can believe whatever you choose to...that I am telling the truth (I am), OR pass me off as just a kook who doesn't like CB Radio. It doesn't matter. Truth is truth and remains the same no matter what WE believe.

Harmonics can be generated many echelons away from the Fundamental Frequency. And it has nothing to do with being mobile, a trucker, or anything else.. If you operate with a boogered up radio, operate illegally outside the 40 CB channels, run an unfiltered amplifier, you WILL generate "spurs" (harmonics) and interfere with people both ON and outside 11 Meters. Can't blame ME for that!

 

Turned in by some "do-gooder" ham no doubt.

 

Give me hard frequency numbers. You have danced around the issue... I NEVER said that the military used only voice... I listen between channel 40 and the lower end of the 10 meter band all the time and hear NOTHING. As for hard facts I can name NUMEROUS car services hre in the city that have operated for many years between channel 40 and the start of the legal 10 meter band. FCC never bothered them. I still listen to them all the time.

As for another fact... The FCC has publically stated on more than one occasion that they no longer police CB's as they did 30-40 years ago. FCC SAYS IT THEMSELVES.

Honestly, AND THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT YOU PERSONALLY, I stopped getting my hams license because I really didn't like the attitude of many of the ops I met. I have been an electronics technician and hobbyist sinc3e 1980. Professionally worked with computers. I go back to mainframe days before PCs were a standard household appliances. Love all kinds of electronics.

Do listen to ham bands. 10M and 2 meter, mostly. How many times on 2 meter have I heard drama because a call sign doesn'y check out. Honestly... My impression is that most guys out there are more interested in playing radio policeman than the hobby itself. I don't care what the other guy is doing as I worry about myself.

Again I will be straightforward. A buddy of mine I met on CB in 1974 or '75 passed a short time ago. His widow, also a long toime friend, gave me a bunch of his ham equipment. I started listening to ham radio and once again considered getting a license, Well... long story short, I have started selling the stuff on EBay and sending the money back to his widow. I love theory, experimenting and building things. I don't hear much at all of that on the ham bands I monitor. Of course I don't listen everywhere and if this is going on whereon other bands... Instruct me and I will check it out.

As for military... My son is a Ranger... Staff Sergeat with 5 active (heavy) combat tours and is currently working stateside down south. Don't know if you are army but Rangers require an especially high security clearance. I asked him to check if there where any frequencies to avoid between 27.405 and legit 10 meter. He said he found reference to some old stuff but could not find anything current the military has going on there. Again, teach me. Give me some hard numbers and I'll be happy tocheck it out.

If we are honest, unlimited talk cell phone plans have probably killed off a great deal of both ham and CB interest. Back in the 70's when you had to pay by the minute for even local calls the CB was like the local telephone company. Every.body had one.

I get my tech radio talk fix here on CB believe it or not. On 38 LSB there is a local net that has its share of radio junkies. When the conditions are right we even have some who participate from a distance via skip. I have not heard nearly as much tech stuff on ham.

It's my belief many hams don't like CB because CB was, for a time, bigger than ham ever was or will be. CB is often referred to as part of the pop culture of the 70's and 80's. Lots of songs about CB were heard on the radio back in the day...

Maybe you are a "kook" as you say, or maybe you know something I don't. If so teach me... I have an open mind.

One thing you will not convince me of though... That CB, or ham radio either, currently presents any major interference issues. Isolated incidents sure... Nothing like it used to be, If you have been around a while, just turn on your radio, Most of the time youn will hear nothing. OK so maybe I miss the 70's when you had to fight to get heard. Tjre was hardly ever enough bandwith to go around. The good old days...

 

Do you know what a direct sequence spread spectrum (DSSS) sounds like on an AM receiver? Go to any channel, and open the squelch. Hear that "white noise"? That's what DSSS sounds like.

Part of the reason the military uses DSSS for its communications is because it's difficult to tell if it's there.

And yes, the government does use the band. Just like the hams, they use whatever bands they have that will allow them to communicate between two points.

 

A lot of what you say is true. I never said it wasn't--except for the uses to which frequencies are put. None of what I said was in any way a "putdown". I merely stated facts and gave a few examples. I cannot divulge actual frequencies with which I am familiar and know to be used by USMilCom. Such is a violation of MilComOpSec. I will tell you this. US military, & government communications are not governed by FCC! There is an agency, actually higher in the pecking order than the dreaded FCC. It is National Telecommunications and Information Agency (NTIA) which sets standards and parameters for equipment, frequencies used and coordination between agencies of the government. It means also that just any old radio cannot be used by government and any civilian agencies that may be part of NTIA coordination. Frequency tolerances are VERY tight. The "tight-lipped" denial of frequency revelations is a result of 9/11. I am aware of one military/civilian agency, a search and rescue auxiliary of the USAF who uses a number of HF frequencies from 2-30 MHZ. It often gets interfered with by CB operators who go outside 11 Meters in violation of US law. All you gotta do is listen. You, as one not aware of exact frequencies, can listen below channel 1 and hear CBers down to 25 MHZ. But it interferes nonetheless. The agency in question is responsible for saving many lives in disasters with their air/ground search capabilities. One was the missing family we saw on the national news this winter with the overturned Jeep. And, btw, even if you ASK, the military will DENY their use of ANY frequency and, certainly not tell you any "numbers"!

IF there are any "radio policemen" in amateur radio it is mostly those who are interested in keeping the hobby from deteriorating into a cesspool----er uh, like one adjacent with its unfiltered amps, its lack of knowledge of how to effectively use LESS power to achieve the same---even BETTER---results. That also includes a penchant for "them 'extree' channels" they seem to think they have a 'right' to, using the excuse, "Them channels ain't used no more, so its OK to filch them". Any assertions to the contrary are simply a denial based in ignorance of the facts and the reasons why the laws of the land say it is not OK to do so. And if you take the time to look, there have been plenty of "car services"/limo services who have been busted for misusing radio services. Its on FCC's website.

Now. As to the "do-gooder hams" that found truckers ON 10 Meters and complained about it/turned them in, I would have to say BULLY FOR THEM!!~!~!
The hams protected what is, by law and treaty, theirs by virtue of licensure and removed those who don't belong there. It is the equivalent of having a squatter in your house. Would you just sit there and put up with it? NO! Amateur Radio by tradition and law is self-policed. It has the Amateur Auxiliary, the Official Observer program--all are designed to keep ham radio clean, fun and available for ALL. Such requires RULES. If THAT makes hams "do-gooders", well, so be it. I'll choose THAT any day over the cesspool that is usually CB--the racket, the "superbowl", the splattering, boogered-up radios and the SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, HOWWWWWWWL, ROAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
And, assuming you have the technical knowledge you SAY you have (I am not going to doubt you here), then the only one being hurt by your aversion to amateur radio is..................................YOU! With ham radio's THOUSANDS of frequencies, exotic destinations, the countries that can be learned about, the technical aspects of building things, the long-distance contacts (DX), comraderie, and the neat "toys" that far surpass CB sets, it is YOU that is missing out with an attempt at "putdown" of a hobby that is just awesome. Amateurs are a cross section of the world. They have the same foibles, personalities, dislike, likes, fears and hurts as anybody else. Its got nothing to do with when one becomes a ham he automatically becomes an A-hole. You can't tell me there's NOT Butt***s on CB radio. It's called being HUMAN, man!!!

I haven't dodged anything. You can't/won't tell me how much money you have in the bank or where your bank is(security reasons), and I can't tell you specific frequencies (security reasons). But you CAN find instances on FCC's Enforcement pages of CBers being popped for various reasons as well as hams, as well as unlicensed broadcasters. Some of these DO involve modified "10 Meter" radios, talking on 10 Meters directly, OR interfering with adjacent bands. We believe what we WANT to believe, don't we? Just because I can't blab everything I am aware of doesn't make me automatically wrong, nor does it make you RIGHT because I can't.

CB radio has a long history of rebellion and law violations, and seems to go out of its way to stretch the boundaries of the law. Its users make excuses for the amps that splatter within and outside 11 Meters. They want more and more and more, when CB has reached the technical end of its useful life except for the trucking industry and a few holdouts. Users want mo' power and "better" radios, so they buy radios that are ILLEGAL to use (so-called 10 Meter) and modify them to operate there. Then they think, "them channels is empty and we's got a 'right'", so they go visiting on 10 Meters and squat on 28.085 AM(for example) where voice operations is not even allowed for the hams themselves. Then the Feds, tho slowly, gets involved............We believe what we WANT to believe. Until there's that knock on the door! Like Red Man's CB SHOP!