Article - Personal Conveyance Guidelines

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by Eddiec, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. stayinback

    stayinback Road Train Member

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    If its Christmas time..........You do whatever it takes to be home with your loved ones,Electronic Or Not.
     
  2. Scalemaster

    Scalemaster Heavy Load Member

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    That might fall under acceptable use of PC:
    "Time spent traveling to a nearby, reasonable, safe location to obtain required rest after loading or unloading. The time driving under personal conveyance must allow the driver adequate time to obtain the required rest ... before returning to on-duty driving, and the resting location must be the first such location reasonably available."
    Personal Conveyance
     
  3. Accidental Trucker

    Accidental Trucker Road Train Member

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    Thanks, that's the way I looked at it. Sometimes you just get hung up due to slow customs or a paperwork snafu, and there's no rhyme or reason. Truck stop is 7 miles down the road, so close enough.

    We used to roll out of the gate and find a side road to park on if it happened, but that's far from ideal.

    I've thought about using "adverse conditions", but that doesn't extend the 14 (like it should).
     
  4. Northeasterner

    Northeasterner Light Load Member

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    You come across as kind of tone deaf. If it's a man who is trying to get home to be with his family, are you really going to slap a fine on him or shut him down?

    How would you feel if you were in his shoes? Remember, you got to go home and see your family for Christmas.

    It doesn't matter whether it's the law or not, once we throw out the culture and human dignity then there's really no point to enforcing much of anything...

    I really would hope you would use your discretion in that kind of case. Because if not, I question the positioning of your moral compass.

    Again, causing the driver to miss Christmas with his family is perfectly legal, but it's still wrong. Morally, ethically, it's still wrong. PERIOD.

    All too often I hear leo's talk about the letter of the law, and I keep getting this image of Pontius Pilate washing his hands....
     
    Lite bug Thanks this.
  5. Scalemaster

    Scalemaster Heavy Load Member

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    I am not tone deaf, I have been in his shoes. I could care less about the fines, may not even write a ticket.

    It has nothing to do with culture or human dignity, it has to do with PUBLIC SAFETY. Even though I would like to help someone get home for Christmas, I cannot authorize him to drive over hours of service limits.

    My moral compass is focused on doing the right thing and keeping within the laws of the land.

    It would not be me who would be "causing the driver to miss Christmas", it would be up to the carrier and the driver to schedule things so the driver could get home LEGALLY.

    I do not wash my hands like Pilate - I am very much concerned for the safety of the driver and the motoring public.

    All we ask is that you be legal.
     
  6. Expeditor

    Expeditor Medium Load Member

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    Personal Conveyance Frequently Asked Questions
    1. May a driver, who drops his or her last load at a receiver’s facility use personal conveyance to return to their normal work location (i.e. home or terminal)?

    No. Returning home or to the terminal from a dispatched trip is a continuation of the trip, and therefore cannot be considered personal conveyance.

    2. T he guidance allows for “authorized use of a CMV to travel home after working at an offsite location.”
    What is meant by the term “offsite” when used in this context?

    The term refers to a location, other than a carrier’s terminal or a shipper’s or receiver’s facility, where a driver works for a temporary period for a particular job. Specifically, this term is intended for construction and utility companies that set up base camps near a major job and operate from there for days or weeks at a time. These remote locations are considered “offsite” locations. Therefore, travel between home and that offsite location is considered commuting time, and qualifies as personal conveyance.

    3. Is personal conveyance treated any differently when the driver is hauling hazardous materials?

    No. There is no restriction on personal conveyance regarding hazardous materials transportation, provided that the driver complies with provisions of 49 CFR parts 177 and 397.

    4. Can a driver who claims the short haul exception use personal conveyance?

    Yes, there is no connection between personal conveyance and the short-haul exception. As always, off duty time does not extend the 12-hour duty time limitation.

    5. How is personal conveyance time calculated in the hours-of-service rules?

    Time spent under personal conveyance is off duty time.

    6. May a driver use personal conveyance when they run out of available (driving/on-duty) hours?

    No, except for the one exception described in the guidance where a driver who runs out of hours while at a shipper’s or receiver’s facility may drive from that facility to a nearby, safe location to park, provided that the driver allows adequate time to obtain rest in accordance with daily minimum off-duty periods under the Hours of Service rules before beginning to drive. Personal conveyance is those times where a driver is operating solely for a non-business purpose and cannot be used to extend the duty day.

    7. Are there maximum distance time or distance limits for the use of personal conveyance?

    No. However, it is important to note that the provision in §392.3 of the FMCSRs, prohibiting the operation of a commercial motor vehicle while fatigued, continues to apply. Therefore, a driver must get adequate rest before returning to driving. November 2018 November 2018

    8. I f a driver picks up the commercial motor vehicle from a repair facility once repairs are complete, would the driver be allowed to use personal conveyance to their residence from the repair shop?

    No, travel for repair and maintenance work is being done in the furtherance of the business and is considered on duty time.

    9. Can a loaded vehicle be used as personal conveyance?

    Yes. Determining personal conveyance is based on the nature of the movement, not whether the vehicle is laden.

    10. Can personal conveyance time be combined with other off-duty time to complete a 10 or 34-hour break?

    Yes, since PC is off-duty time. However, it is important to note that the provision in §392.3 of the FMCSRs, prohibiting the operation of a commercial motor vehicle while ill or fatigued continues to apply.

    11. Can a driver be inspected during personal conveyance? If so, what is the driver’s duty status during the inspection?

    Yes. Since the driver is still subject to the FMCSRs, the driver or vehicle can be inspected. The driver’s duty status would be “on- duty, not driving” during the inspection.
     
  7. Northeasterner

    Northeasterner Light Load Member

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    Therein lies the problem. The law is fallible, so sometimes following the law means committing an error. The human dignity aspect is whether it's more important for a driver's wife and children to see him for Christmas, or more important to follow an HOS regulation regardless of whether that driver is in fact capable of safely making it home or not based on their personal capabilities and level of fatigue.

    I understand there are limits to what things you can look the other way on. My point is that, the law of the land and what is right and what is good for Public Safety and Human Dignity are not always the same even though there is a lot of overlap. You admitted this yourself when you said you're focused on doing what is right AND staying within the laws of the land, which means the two are not one and the same.

    But I don't want to get into an argument over this.

    I actually wanted your opinion on the recent FMCSA guidance on the usage of personal conveyance. Is that guidance document binding? Everybody I talked to tells me it's purposely left ambiguous... and it certainly is very broad with only a few examples. But how does that tend to work out if you got a ticket from an officer who has a different interpretation than you?

    My only other experience with regulatory stuff is the SEC, and when they issue guidance it's basically binding it's kind of like Don Corleone saying this would be good for your health if you did X. Is FMCSA guidance work the same way? Are state and/or federal level officers bound to follow it, and will they in practice, or will they just shrug and say hoo ha go argue in front of the judge?
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  8. Scalemaster

    Scalemaster Heavy Load Member

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    Yes, FMCSA interpretations and guidance are binding.

    The proper uses of PC are few and the latest interpretation/guidance gives examples of what is and what is not PC.
     
  9. Random truck guy

    Random truck guy Bobtail Member

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    A bit late to the conversation but I wanted to chime in on something. I've noticed not all scale houses are run by on duty police officers. A number of them are just inspectors. Which unless I'm wrong. ( I am offen) just hourly state employees, so as scale master said. Biggest concern is safety, but also. Job and family, I.E. a driver asking this stuff is asking some one that most likely gets paid less then drivers. To risk doing something g that is. Unsafe and can risk there own job and income. As such. You can't expect then to just say. Ya man. Go ahead. I'll just look in ummm... that other direction.


    In the end. It's just work, drivers and inspectors have jobs to do. Can't hold that against a person.
     
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