Automatic Manual Transmissions vs Manual Transmissions

AMT's are fine in most "non snow" locations, but have no relevance in snow or ice. As a matter of fact AMT's result in many commercial fatalaties because of driver error. Please don't misuse AMT technology. It's a great advancement, but not meant for use in northern climates.

 

I've driven on solid ice lightly loaded in this truck and didn't experience any worse traction issues than my previous truck.

 

It appears to me that you have zero experience driving a auto shift. First off theses are not automatics as in fluid drive like a car or pickup. These are computer controlled clutches that shift for the driver.
Second, compression braking is equal to a manual transmission is these trucks. You don't have to "ride the ride" as you put it.
Third, ABS does not make things worse. Its just another tool in the tool box available to the driver. All class 8 trucks have ABS after 1998 so unless you're driving a cool classic then you're stuck with it. The jonny bar is still used in certain applications too.
Forth, spinning out on a hill climb is just as easy with an auto shift as a manual shift. That sir is due to driver error and/or road conditions, not the auto shift's fault.
I have traditionally been in the "I hate auto shift" crowd. It wasn't until recently I became a believer, but let me explain what I had to do to make this truck I drive usable. First off a little background. I haul straw from wheat fields into southern BC near Princeton. I drive in deep mud, narrow county roads and steep logging type roads to get to the receiver or stack. The private road into the receiver is average 10% with a 15% section. It is covered in snow this time of the year, mud in the spring and loose gravel in the summer. I am driving down hill loaded and empty on the climb out. I'm licensed for 105500 but have been as high as 110400 gross, and this is pulling a super B train.
What I had to change to make this Volvo I shift work for me was to learn how to drive an auto shift. In many ways I had to relearn how to drive too. You cannot creep up the hill when empty. You need speed, at least 20mph but 25-30 MPH is desired. (this is the same for the manual trucks that deliver here too BTW) I had to get used to "power sliding" around corners, watching the rear trailer "cracking the whip" because you're cornering so fast on the snow. (this is off road BTW, it would be very unsafe to drive this way on public roads) What made the most profound difference was shutting the Bendix Traction Control computer off while off road. This computer controls the traction control, roll stability, ABS and hill start assist. Having a computer trying to control wheel spin when you have chains on is stupid. It controls the throttle, applies brakes to the spinning wheel and ultimately will stop you on the hill. In order to properly and safely navigate these type of situations the truck needs to have full locking rear ends too. And last, the driver must use the transmission in manual mode rather than auto mode. Here again the auto shift is just another tool in the tool box. The driver has 100% control of when it shifts (up to engine protection RPM's) and 100% control of engine braking. There is zero issue with the auto shift's when used as designed and with the proper driving technique. For those drivers who refuse to relearn some things then I guess you need to stay in a manual. For those of us that get stuck driving a auto shift then my advice is to keep an open mind about things and be prepared to do some learning.

 

I go through that scale all the time, never had them ask for my logs or even my drivers license. Maybe they see your from Colorado, we don't care for greenees lol

 

Seriously? Thanks for the chuckle

Ted suggested that autos were a contributing factor in wrecks. It seems to me that you made Ted's point for him. The trans is just a tool and the manual is clearly the best tool for the job. I don't care what the bean counters or the manufacturers or incompetent lazy truck drivers say, they are garbage and you just proved it with your post.

You'll have to excuse me if I retain the opinion that they are garbage. Again, I ask "WHY, WHY, WHY when all you have to do is learn how to shift or hire a competent driver?"

 

It is true that there is a learning curve with autos. I was very resistant, but I tried to reserve judgement on them until I had enough time in an auto to be able to judge them fairly. I am at a company that has been transitioning for several years to all-autos for the new trucks, and it is NOT to attract new, inexperienced drivers. The vast majority of our drivers have between 10 - 30 years experience. Some starter fleets probably consider that when purchasing auto trucks, but mine obviously wasn't thinking about making rookies more comfortable. At this point, maybe 85% of the fleet is automatic. But every road test is done in a manual, and they won't hire a driver who cannot shift.

I still prefer manuals, and pushed to have a million-mile truck issued to me as opposed to a brand new auto. I did get plenty of seat time in various makes of auto trucks with different engine-transmission combinations, and over time have gotten more used to what I have to do in order to make them drive the way I prefer. I still have a lot to learn, however. I continue to feel like I am sacrificing control that makes them a little less safe in certain situations.

Specifically, I don't like:
1. how they perform in reverse. When you find the "sweet spot" where the clutch engages, it often starts hauling donkey backwards. You can really slam a dock hard that way. Or bounce off of it as the truck goes into neutral. It can be really frustrating, especially backing up a slope. Backing under heavy trailers and sliding tandems, same thing. No finesse, like you have with a clutch.
2. how they choose gears. I often don't like the "decisions" it makes. And yes, I can override it, but then I'm thinking about shifting and looking at what gear is selected, which I don't do in a manual. Depending on my weight or the grade, in a manual I start out in different gears and will often skip gears because I am usually very light doing P&D. The autos will skip gears when light if the throttle is mashed, but it can lurch way more than I would've if I'd been in control of the shift/throttle combo. Just not knowing when it is going to time the shift is frustrating especially when making turns at intersections.
3. how they limit what options you have in the event of a breakdown. You can't start the truck in gear and use the starter to creep a short distance (say, off the road). And you can't roll start the truck on a slope or being towed with a chain if the starter fails. It increases the chances you will need to be towed to a shop rather than being able to "limp it to a shop".

I don't like autos, but they seem to be better designed these days than they used to be. If I have a choice, I choose manual. But I also love my job, and will gladly drive whatever they give me.

 

Bozeman, Mt. to Denver, Co., 10.25 hrs in a 75 mph truck, left Bozeman at 11am, hit Sheridan 4.25 hrs later. Red lighted and told to head for inspection. Level 1 of every nook and cranny, even broke the seals to check load securement inside the container. While checking my paperwork against the computer (inc. prepass), she noted the prepass time stamp in Billings. Took out her calculator, did some number crunching, then asked how fast my truck went, initially I said I don't know. She replied, Montana is a 65 mph state for trucks, not a 68 mph state, based on your time stamps, you avg'd about 68.5 mph. Came clean and said it was a 75 mph truck. She smiled politely.

Asked where I'd stopped between Bozeman and Sheridan, I said other than the 2 minute pee stop about 30 miles up the road on an off-ramp, no place. She looked at my log, asked why I didn't flag the stop, I asked why should I, in the grand scheme of things it didn't matter.

Direct reply from her and her supervisor: Technically driver, that would make it a falsified log book, as you didn't flag all stops, you are supposed to record any time you stop the truck and leave the drivers seat and exit the vehicle, even if it's only a minute or two, you can stay on line 3, just draw a line down, notate the location and the reason for the brief stop.

When all was said and done, she handed me a $150 ticket for false log book, failed to notate stop. On my form it shows the violation, and on my CSA report it shows it as well.

This was in 2010, long before Colorado made the green stuff legal.

 

I drive the northeast, and run into this issue with our automatic day cabs on a regular basis. The key is to pay attention and shift to manual mode, then select the appropriate gear for the upcoming terrain. Automatic mode works well for most situations you encounter while driving, but manual mode is there for you to use when you want it.

 

Well, my company requires a minimum of 3 yrs OTR exp., every driver that works for us has at least 15 yrs exp. Two new guys that have been with us about a year, one has 35 yrs exp., has driven everything from triple sticks to push button autos, 3 tours with Haliburton in the sand box, and 8 yrs in the oil patch. After his first week he fell in love with his autoshift truck, hates to give up the keys even for a PM. Other driver has 25 yrs exp., almost all in the oil patch, before that company laid off most of their people in a buyout last year, his last truck was automatic, his truck with us is an autoshift, absolutely loves it.

 

Again, all these issues, in 15 yrs driving autoshifts and push button autos, I've not exp. a single one, and oddly, I drive these trucks in the rockies, on mtn. roads, on snow, on ice, with chains, without chains. I've not yet visited my chiropractor because of whiplash while back under a trailer, I can count on one hand the number of times I've rattled my teeth backing into a dock too fast (and in every instance, it was driver error, computer had nothing to do with it). The way some of you whine about AMT's and automatics, I'm surprised you're capable of using a computer or smart phone (unless as I suspect, you're still using a flip phone and someone else is typing on the computer as you talk), because literally, if you can turn on a computer, or use a smart phone, you can drive an AMT or automatic truck.

BTW, on a daily basis, I'm surprised at the number of "gear jammers" that grind gears while shifting, I think I'm going to carry a bucket with me, every time I hear some 18 wheeler with a manual tranny being ground, I'm dropping a buck in that bucket, I figure by years end, both my cars will be paid off.

For the record, this is what my trans looks like (not my truck, but stock Mack trucks photo, although the layout of my other buttons is almost the same as well), and if you old timers want a real driving exp., that little symbol below the gear indicator is called a MAXBRAKE, when applied, it automatically drops the trans AT LEAST one, sometimes two gears, running the rpms to redline, and fully applies engine braking, even if they are turned off. At 80,000 lbs, it will put you through the windshield unless your seat belt is on, when bobtail it will lock up the wheels. BTW, the button on the bottom right that says PERF, that's Performance mode, it changes the shift points, starts all shifts in 1st gear, and even loaded heavy makes me wonder where the truck found the extra ponies. Oh, and that lovely M-drive, when bobtail I can manually adjust the trans to allow me to start off in 6th gear, under a load it will allow me to adjust to start off in up to 4th gear. Oh, and those other buttons, top right is engine brake HI/LO/OFF, middle right is hill descent control, set it and forget it, the one next to it is called Grade Gripper, it's the only part of the setup I really hate. When you stop on a hill, as soon as your foot is on the brakes, the computer applies 40 psi of braking pressure, when you take your foot off the brakes and apply throttle, it continues to apply brakes until you have at least 200 rpms of engine buildup then it releases, in slick conditions, this can cause you to spin out, thus, hit the button, it cancels the Grade gripper, and brakes work like any other truck.