Big Loads - Post Photos Number 2

The numbers that are listed will be the peak hp/tq numbers that the engine produces at whatever rpm. Generally you're going to see the max torque at a relatively low rpm and max hp near the upper rpm range. Different tuning strategies can make significant changes not only in the the peak hp/tq numbers produced but also where in the rpm range they hit. I don't know anything about Detriots but I'd bet that they're just changing a tune file that has different low rpm fueling and timing to bump up the torque levels. This will affect hp at those rpm but as you climb through the rpm I would guess the tuning goes back to more closely match that of the 600/1850 file and thus you keep the 600 hp.

 

I'm only guessing- because you aren't changing the higher rpm parameters. I've long forgotten the formula, but torque multiplied by rpm = horsepower. So It could very well be a 750/2000 tune, but you'd need to wind it out to 4000 rpm. My guess

 

Upto 600/1850 are program changes.

To move to 2050 requires a physical modification to the engine and as @Oscar the KW points out a significant up charge.

 

Loaded up in Omaha waiting for permits so can get moving

 

Ok I want preface this by saying I'm in no way trying to argue on insult anyone so don't take it that way, I truly enjoy the learning and brainstorming part.

Ok, torque is a direct result of power applied to a lever, in our case a crankshaft. you apply 600 horsepower to the crank you get a specific amount of torque, in this case 1850 ftp's. The only way to increase that torque is to either lengthen the stoke or apply more power to the crank.

Think about this, take a 3' breaker bar and a digital torque gauge, put them on a nut and apply 50# of weight to the handle and you will get a torque reading (I have no idea what it would be doesn't matter). the only way to increase that torque value is to either put more weight on the handle or move the weight further out on the wrench. So your either increasing power (the weight) or increasing torque (the distance).

I understand the engine makes it's max torque and horsepower at different ranges on the torque curve, but two engines that have the same horsepower and the same available RPM range should make the same torque.

Thoughts?

 

Your getting that down to a science.

 

I can relate to what your saying JD, but i think in the case of an engine could it be the idea that its a matter of a constant rotating mass and torque is determined by a continuous cycle of rotation, not just a leverage stanpoint (the breaker bar example)

Not in disagreement at all either, im brainstorming too

You are right in the idea of leverage though, as far as stroke goes though. Longer, more leverage.

I was always thinking HP is in relation to how FAST it can make torque, not necessarily actually increase the torque.

 

I think torque comes first JD. Hp is calculated from torque and rpm.
Edit: That's my understanding. I could be wrong.

 

I think its HP = (Torque x RPM) ÷ 5252

Its been a while though. Makes sense because IIRC at 5252 RPM horsepower and torque would be equal.

Edit: Didn't make it all the way through Heavy Hammer's post. Guess he beat me to it.

 

It really comes down to the fact that the hp and tq curves see maximums at different rpm. Through tuning you can move each of these around a little bit. What we have to think about is that the engine is not producing 600hp all the time, or 1850tq all the time-those are only the peaks.
Taken from Detroit website for example, dd16 is making 1850tq at only 975rpm, while it doesn't hit the 600hp max until 1800rpm. (the 2050 version also hits max hp and tq at the same rpm) So what this is telling us is that both versions of this engine are making the same hp and tq as each other at 1800rpm.
HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252
From this equation, the 1850tq version is making about 343hp at peak torque (975rpm)
The 2050tq version is making about 381hp at its peak tq 2500ft/lb (also at 975rpm)
We also know that both engines have to make the same tq at 1800 rpm because they are both listed to make 600hp at that rpm. This means 1751ft/lb.
Ultimately, you can have the peak hp be the same with 2 different peak tq ratings but its going to change the curves up to the point where they are the same (1800rpm in this example). Imagine that the second floor of a building represents the 600hp 1800rpm point. There are two ways to get there, you could take the stairs or you could take the elevator up. They both put you at the same end point but the path to get there is slightly different.
I want to add that there will be a limit to how much you can change one maximum without changing another. Example being that you aren't going to be able to crank a dd16 to 3500ft/lb of peak torque and still only make 600 peak hp.