braking on big mountains...

So...Because some university did a study, we are all supposed to set aside all of our collective years of "real world" experience? Ignore the facts as we have learned them through " hands on" use of the very systems that the pinheads are trying to explain to us "in theory"?
How many of those educated fools do you suppose have run these systems enough miles to actually see how they wear over their lifespan in actual on the road use....or have ever decsended a steep grade with 100,000 + on their trailer?

Sorry to dissapoint you, but the difference of opinion can not be " put to rest" because you cited some study....because, drivers that have millions of miles under their belts have found that " the facts" that the "studies" claim don't bear up under "real world" conditions.

 

Looks like there's equal amounts of drivers claiming that one or the other method works for them so that doesn't go far to prove anything. I use my own version of stab braking and have never smoked my brakes.

I don't think they're right with the 20-30psi, though. That's too high. I try not to go over 10-15 for any reason, other than getting the auto slack adjusters to work, and a normal stop is 5-7. I don't use the brakes at all if I can help it.

 

My "opinion" is not only based on "MY experience" but is corroborated by data offered in the study. The point is this "study" has never been refuted and is in fact the cornerstone for the current training practices in practically EVERY school nationwide.

You may label these folks "fools" if you like but based on MY experience they are 100% accurate. I have pulled loads well over 80k as well with NO jake brake back in the early 90's and have used snub braking with no problems. No glazed brakes. No tire fires. No smoke shows. No broken drums.

If you disagree with the results of the existing study then by all means begin your own study and refute the info being taught. Then once you can PROVE your case then you can go to each state and have their CDL manuals reprinted with your version of the facts. Short of this happening you might as well give it up.

 

The next time i go down a hill i hope i dont forget my calculator !!!

 

IMHO, what you have done is provide evidence that proves the other side of the argument at least as well as your side. The position of the experienced old hands is that a light steady pressure is best. We learned this through experience, over time while paying for the repairs and maintenance out of our pockets. We did this “back in the day” (read 30 – 40 years ago), without jake brakes and often grossing in excess of 100,000 pounds. We still successfully operate this way today despite the technological advances and the articles written by educated fools for uneducated fools.

Please note that all the red print discusses the possible mechanical problems that may be found in the air brake system. It also talks about what it may not cause or what may result. There are a lot of maybes here that us ole hands don’t deal with. We know our vehicles and we know how to adjust and maintain them. We also know when they are not functioning correctly. This new braking method overcomes all the maybes that a steering wheel holder or inexperienced driver might encounter.

Please note that the blue print in the two locations is contradictory. The top paragraph says that in many cases tractor brakes do too much work while trailer brakes loaf. The bottom paragraph suggests that the trailer may do more work. I’m sure the trailer brakes apply first as that is the only logical way for the system to operate. I can tell you that most of us that started driving years ago can tell by the feel of the pedal and the reaction of the vehicle at what point 10 brakes are working with respect to what point 4 or 6 brakes are working. That is how we effectively use this method on a regular basis with excellent results.

Please note that all the green print discusses the conditions under which the air brake system will function correctly using either method. The top paragraph discusses how all linings must make contact with all drums for effective braking. This is absolutely correct, however the assumption that it takes “about 20 PSI or higher” is not correct. I challenge you to check this on properly functioning equipment and report back. The bottom paragraph tells you exactly what we have been saying all along. The amount of heat produced is dependent on the weight and the amount of slowing desired. So you tell me, if you hold a vehicle at 45 MPH does that produce more heat than running up to 50 MPH and slowing back down to 40MPH? If you understand speed, mass and kinetic energy you have to get this answer right, just like you would if you started driving years ago and learned through experience.

Now I, like all the other experienced old hands, have no plan to change my braking methods. These methods have served us well over many years. Steady pressure braking is tried and proven through vehicle control and maintenance costs over many years of operation.

Still I wouldn’t argue that the snub braking is better suited to the industry and drivers of today. The reasons are as simple as they are sad. Companies don’t properly maintain their equipment; drivers don’t know how to check or verify proper brake operation and don’t care about their equipment. Drivers today go down the road with headsets on, oblivious to their surroundings. They don’t see, feel and hear what their equipment is telling them. So yes it is simple to see why a failsafe method of braking on downgrades was necessary for today’s industry.

While the above statement is true, I mean no disrespect to any driver new or old, 40,000 or 4,000,000 miles that truly knows and understands his equipment and is a true professional. Unfortunately the numbers aren’t in favor of this type of driver.

 

I am not going to debate this issue further. You dont like whats being taught? Then as I stated before; "do a study on your own and refute the study cited." Your beef should be with the University of Mi and the state governments who accepted their findings and changed their manuals to include snub braking.

 

Refusing to learn new things and look at the world in a different way is just as bad as an inexperienced driver thinking he knows everything.

 

You are entitled to your OWN opinion.

 

We did refute the study with many years of experience from other drivers on this forum.

I did refute the study using the studies own information that you posted.

In addition, my post made it clear why your way is used today and acknowledged the need in view of the direction the industry has gone.

I wouldn't debate further either. Your ammunition is spent.

I’m guessing you are one of the few that didn’t see the discrepancies in your information that I pointed out. Those same discrepancies that you no longer wish to debate further.

I’m also guessing you are one of the few that didn’t get the fact that I acknowledged we needed your method for the majority of modern drivers that don’t have the ability or desire to know their vehicles well enough to use the tried and proven method.

 

And fixing things that are tried and proven is a fool's game or a government project.