C.R. England and Sons, Inc. - West Valley, Ut.

He would think he would be called a liar because a page or 2 back someone said not to come here blowing sunshine about CRE.

I believe his stand is that CRE employment is what you make it.

 

I lived in Woodbridge Twsp which Avenel is a part of. I know that area well. But from what I have heard things have changed there a lot since we moved out of NJ in 94.

 

Sometimes employment with a company is a necessary evil. Hey my husband's first job was with PAM. He stayed with them until his contract was finished and then he left. As far a making the best out of employment with a company goes, well sometimes it is completely out of your control and you have to just suck it in and take what is given you until you can go on and better yourself. I don't look down on anyone because they are with a particular company. They may not like the one my husband is with. The point is to take all things in consideration. If the majority of the views are against a company I would have to be inclined to believe that company would be one of my last choices.
For everyone about to go to their company of their choice I say Good Luck and I hope you can avoid the pitfalls of others that have come before you.

 

Friend, I don't deal in hearsay. Please....go find out what it's all about. You may be just like this other guy, and will find them to be a complete utopia.

And to be totally honest, I'm a bit tired of pointing people to sources of information. Google is at your fingertips. You stated that you've been to the Ripoff Report site, and there were some doozy's there.

I had a hard drive full of information on that company, as well as many others, on a computer that fried last November. It contained links to lawsuits, testimonials that you would never read on their website, and documentation. I had at least ten files on that company alone.

But, to ward off unfounded accusations that I understand, but will defend vigorously, I will offer something concrete that goes back a few years, and I assure you that THIS is not hearsay.

BUD F. BARELA,

Plaintiff - Appellant,

v.

C.R. ENGLAND & SONS, INC., a Utah Corporation,

Defendant - Appellee.

This was a wrongful termination lawsuit, and within it, are details that illustrate the way the company operates. The highlights;

Barela joined England as a truck driver in December of 1993. By late spring of 1994, he had assumed the position of truck instructor in England's driver training program. Numerous students praised Barela's performance as an instructor. Supervisors and a company publication recognized Barela's success with the students. There is no evidence in the record of any problem with Barela's work until the two-to-three week period preceding his discharge.

Between June and November of 1994, some of Barela's students asked him how it was possible for them to earn the annual pay and time off that they claimed England had promised in connection with their recruitment. In helping these students to "do the math," Barela found that given their pay rates and state and federal drive-time regulations, it was impossible. There is evidence in the record that England employees were encouraged to drive in excess of the law. Barela advised his students that they could not legally earn what they told him they had been promised, but also told them that England was a great place to work.

On November 4, 1994, England conducted a "Safety Summit" meeting to facilitate company "brain storming" on accident reduction. Barela raised concerns at the meeting based on his students' questions. Plaintiff and defendant dispute the tenor of Barela's comments. However, it is undisputed that Barela challenged England's personnel practices and that at least one supervisor responded negatively. Immediately following the meeting, England's vice president of operations instructed Barela's supervisor, Gary Thompson, to investigate Barela.

On November 7, Thompson called Barela into his office to discuss the Safety Summit meeting. He instructed Barela not to answer student questions about earning and time-off potential and criticized Barela for undermining the company's goals.

Three weeks after the meeting in Thompson's office, Thompson terminated Barela. England alleged to the district court that it terminated Barela because he was caught reading a newspaper and balancing his checkbook during work hours. The record indicates that England did not offer this reason to Barela or enforce a policy against such activities prior to Barela's discharge.

That was a quote from the court record. Mr. Barela won that appeal and was awarded a private settlement.

Now, let's look at some of the Rip-Off Report site offerings;

Anyone considering C.R England as a way to get their CDL should reconsider. I only wish I had a warning before going to one of their schools in South Carolina. First off I was lied to and was even given a brochure that showed the so called facility. The brochure showed a brand new facility complete with a restaurant, stores, work out room, huge classrooms, barber shops, video area and lots more. The school recruiter said that someone would take us into town for any reason every hour on the hour. He also said that before we left the school we would have our CDL hard copy.

When I arrived at southcarolina by way of a greyhound I met the driver (Jamie ) He instantly yelled at the top of his lungs and talked so fast he reminded me of a drill seargent. (Not Pleasant) When we arrived at the school it was a joke. It looked exactly like a jail cement walls, very cold, grim faces, and nothing in that brochure was at that facility. I was quickly shown my room which I think may have been smaller than a jail cell again the cement walls and very cold, but I wasnt worried at that point I could handle the accomadations despite the fact I had been lied to considerably. The room consisted of a bunk bed that could hardly fit and a locker that was used by what im guessing was high school students at a high school after reading all the grafitti....<snipped>

...Week two----FUN (wrong) Monday it was time to be out to the yard at 6:00am sharp about 45 degrees and pouring down rain and I mean pouring down rain. POURING!!!! Yes we had to stand in the freezing cold rain for 10 hours. My arms were turning blue and do you know how many short backing manuvers I was given in ten freezing , wet hours??????????????? ONLY 3
Do you think I learned much???? No!!!!...

Tuesday out to the yard 6:00 am sharp again pouring down rain and freezing cold. Some of the guys started to complain at which time a rusty old steel barrel was pointed out. We had to go fetch wet firewood so that we could start a fire in the barrel to stay warm. Wet fire wood? LOL i was starting to be convinced that this was a bootcamp or some type of punishment for wanting to be a trucker. I mean come on now 10 hours and three times in the truck the day before and now we were suppose to be stupid enough to try this again? Okay so Im optimistic and said I can deal with this. I fetched some wet wood and I ripped up notebook paper and notes to stay warm. The trucks mirrors were viberating violently not to mention the pouring down rain and we were suppose to see a little yellow cone in our mirrors about 80 feet back???? LOL...

Just from the three backing chances the day before I was suppose to know how to do this. No coaching this time The instructor (Chad S.) Yelled that if one of the cones gets knocked over then you get out and pick it up. He was aggervated and VERY impatient. If you were turning the wheel the wrong way he would motion and jerk his hand the other way then shake his head and yell and scream.

My second day on the yard my poncho stuck to my face, Every hair on my head dripping freezing water in my face as I consentrate on a vibrating mirror for a cone and this Chad [edited] yells and screams in my way one to many. 24 hours later Im back at home and Im warning you if you go to C.R England you will be sorry...

Its a joke and stop to ask yourself why its so cheap. There is a reason for it. Because you wont have hardly anytime in that truck. the trucks they do have for training are riddeled with problems. The air brakes leaking, mirrors viberating. worn out clutches, non working windshield wipers in the pouring down rain, non working heat, impatient instructors who are pissed to be out there as much as you in the rain and cold. Take notice its nowhere you want to go if you want to learn. YOU WONT LEARN ANYTHING AT C.R. ENGLAND!!!!!!!!

If you have some experience with a tractor trailer then you might have some luck if you can stand the conditions. But I saw guys there that had experience and were going on their fifth week there. They say they dont check your credit and all that for the loan but im hear to tell you that they do and if they think that you wont be able to pay them back without working for them then they will make it twice as hard for you and may not pass you through the first class and send you home at your expense of course.

They wont let you get in that truck if they think you dont qualify for the 3000 dollar loan but they wont tell you that they will just flunk you or make it extremly hard on you so that you want to go home... But even if you do pay up front or have good credit dont expect to get your monies worth because you wont even if you pass the class, the jobs at C.R. England are nothing you'd want atleast thats what I was told by every trucker that came in there who was on a layover. One guy said the truck that you will get will be a junker and more than likley you will have to ride with someone to go pick it up (umpteen miles away because the last driver abandoned it there and quit.

Paul - Palm Harbor, Florida
U.S.A.

A rebuttal;

...I went thru school in spartanburg in the middle of winter when they had the worst ice storm in yrs and we stood out side freezing for 10 hrs a day also...

Earl - New Port Richey, Florida
U.S.A.

Rebuttal Consumer Suggestion
Submitted: 7/25/2005 7:59:32 PM Modified: 7/25/2005 7:59:32 PM

...I was at the Salt Lake headquarters for orientation only. I already had a CDL. The rooms are decent. They have a cafeteria there. The used to give you a meal voucher good for one meal a day.

There is only one problem there. They had this idiot called the FBI. It was this [edited] guy who claimed he used to work for the FBI. His “job” is to call the drivers in one by one and get them to admit to something in their past.

Obviously, he's no FBI or else he could just do an NCIC check. But, he tries to scare people into admitting something...

Paul - Anaheim, California
U.S.A.


Rebuttal UPDATE EX-employee responds
Submitted: 4/28/2006 2:48:17 PM Modified: 4/28/2006 2:48:17 PM

...I went to CRE in SLC and everything was going fine..I already had my CDL and some experience so I had to do 2 weeks with a trainer. They were very helpful with getting me out to Utah from the east coast where I lived..They actually had a driver pick me up at my house rather than me take a bus which I was more than happy to do...The driver that picked me up was very nice and professional and had nothing bad to say about CRE..After getting to SLC and going thru the orientation I was sent out with my first of two bad trainers..the first was an old guy that had been with CRE for like 30 yrs and was a nice guy but a not so good trainer.

The next was Mr. Drill srgt trainer that left me at a truckstop in Atlanta because I wouldnt take his crap anymore..this was a few years ago and they werent pushing the lease then so I dont know much about the ripoffs associated with that...

Fred - Daytona Beach, Florida
U.S.A.

More;

....I have been sitting here reading other reports and rebuttal's from people that lived the experance of C.R England,Inc.I only wish I had seen the RIP-OFF Report 2 years ago.

My husband went to C.R England, Inc. to get his CDL's and was supposed to come home to get a local job, but he let his trainer talk him into working toward the Nestle run that he was on. My husband was running all of the time but not making any money to live on. He kept telling me that C.R England, Inc. was taking the money for lumper's, toll's, and scaling out loads out of his check. He said they were telling him that he was giving them the wrong numbers, or not sending them the right paper work that they needed to pay him. They even took money for repairs of one of there trailers. And as another man said they even refused to pay him for 3 trips saying that they did not get his trip pack. But he did get that because he had made copies of every trip and was able to fax them the copies.

After 6 mths. with C.R England,Inc. he got on a Logistic run, but he had to talk to someone and promise that he would forget all of the money they had ripped him off for. We had figured it up at about $6,000.00. I kept asking my husband to come home, but he kept telling me that his trainer was going to get him on the Nestle. Once he was on the Nestle he would be under a different payroll dept. and with a good acct. manager.

Once he was on the Logistic run he wanted me to pack-up everything and come on the road with him. He had been on the road for 7 mths. now and he had only been home twice for four days at a time. I missed my husband, and it was clear that he was going to go all the way threw with what he was doing. So after 2 mths. he got on the Nestle run and was waiting for me.

In Dec. he came home to get me. I had set up to start C.R England,Inc. school Jan. 14,2003, but we thought that it would be good for me to ride with him so I would have a heads up on how things work. I am sure it did help me for that mth. It was tight with 3 people on the truck, but sirmic was nice,clean and helped me a lot too.

I did see a few people leave in the first couple of weeks, but our class stayed large... We had 3 people in each truck and the instructor. I did have alot of trouble with backing and my grades were not as high as they could have been, but all I wanted was to get threw it.My instructor( Kelly )was very helpful.I really got lucky because I have seen only 2 instructors at the Salt Lake City yard that I beleive were good and wanted to help people that wanted to learn. I graduated 01/31/2003 and got my first load assignment 02/02/2003.

My trouble started when I had a accident in Feb. and had to go threw a driving test. The guy testing me was someone I had meet while in school. He was a driver then, but was now doing driving test. He was very friendly until he found out my husband would be training me, then I didn't see him everywhere I went.

When I went to meet him in front of the main building he was on the phone. When he finished what he was doing he came to me with a big smile and asked what was going on. I pulled out the paper work for the test and his smile left. He said "oh your here for a road test." As he walked back to his truck he said "let me finish with this guy". Then he said" I'll get you." And he did...he gave me a auto fail saying I was a danger on the road and that it was clear my husband was doing all of the driving. I'm sorry but we were driving the 80 from Ut. to Oh., back to Ut then to S.C. We were getting 6200 miles a week in ice and heavy snow. Nobody could do all that solo.

I had to go out 2 more weeks then try to get my solo up grade. Payroll had been paying my husband and not paying me anything. They said when I up graded it would clear everything up.And it did. But it took me a month to get it. David had his friend Bubba give me a auto fail too. When my husband finally got to Mr England and he had Doug Mills test me. Mr Mills said he didn't understand why I had been failed. He gave me a 92 and said to go let my training cordinator know. She told me that Nate Hatch over safty had spoke with Mr Mills and that Mr Mills thought that I lacked self confidence and needed to go back on the road for acouple more weeks training.( I did have a lack of confidence, but not in myself.)

When I came back for up grade Mr Mills had me take my backing test again ( I had passed it 2 wks. earlier with 2 pull ups on the driving range ) and do my road test again. I passed both with a 96.

But even after I got my up grade things kept getting worse. Our miles started dropping. My acct. manager said that her bosses were making her push her drivers getting mile to do the lease and if they didn't do the lease she had to cut the miles and give them to a leaser. So she would only give us a full week once a mth. We went from the 6200 miles to 4800 miles average...

Susan
Reidsville, Georgia

Rebuttal UPDATE EX-employee responds
Submitted: 3/26/2006 4:14:21 PM Modified: 3/26/2006 4:14:21 PM

I have just gone thru the whole c r england process and ten minutes after i graduated class i was told that my recruiter had screwed up on my paperwork and i was not hireable.

A month away from home and i had quit a very respectable job working for environmental protection. with a wife and four kids at home this has caused some major financial difficulties indeed. Please be warned DO NOT go to this company the only one making money is them you WILL lose everything indeed...

Randy - Hampton, Connecticut
U.S.A.

And another;

CR England is running a cdl mill in East Chicago Indiana. At my interview the recruiter said the school will be 14 days once there they said it is 17 1/2 days then off to salt lake city.

Where i will be teamed with an instructor till I drive 25,000 mi this will take 3 to 4 weeks at $325 per week this does not add upon miles driven this means i will have to drive close to a 1,000 miles per day. This sent up a red flag to me.

First day at school which is in the middle of crack town just last week a woman that lives on the same street was shot and killed by a drive by shooting while sitting in her home.

The class had 24 men looking to improve there lives. the room size was so small fellows had to stand at the door and wait to fill out there paper work they gave us a so called physical.

how can 24 students learn with only 4 rigs and 1 instructor plus the students how are allready there THANK GOD I found many web sites reporting the ripoffs by CR England I did not go back for day 2 now i'am just waiting to see how much this will cost me .

Ricky
roselawn, Indiana
U.S.A.

Rebuttal UPDATE EX-employee responds
Submitted: 6/1/2004 10:26:52 AM Modified: 6/1/2004 11:24:56 PM

CR. England IS a CDL Mill, unethical, and have no respect for the drivers.

I was there 2 months, and never seen home. Then I witnesses them bringing prospective drivers into the West Valley terminal by the bus loads at LEAST 5 times a day, some at night.

And I watched MASS Firings. I seen them fire drivers and not even give them a ticket home, and they have their families with them, (with legal papers stating they had authorization to take them with).

The right hand NEVER knows what the left hand is doing there. It's hellish. I don't know who's butt your under, but I have witnessed all this.

Regina - Chicago, Illinois
U.S.A.

more;

This company lied about almost every aspect of my employment with them. I have not received promised bonuses. Since I already had my CDL and a little prior experience, I was allowed to believe that I would have my own truck 2 weeks after orientation. Instead, it took just over 3 months.

If you are thinking of signing a lease with CR England, first Google "CR England Lawsuits". Then read the court rulings about CR England's takng undisclosed fees and deductions from drivers pay. One judge said that he was "stunned" at the language of CR England's lease. The OOIDA has a class action lawsuit against CR England right now. Don't take my word for it, look for yourself.

I can't recommend a good trucking company, but I strongly advise you not to work for CR England.

P.S.
As I am writing this, I am stranded in Lowell, IN and have to find my own way home. This because I was trying to have them drop me in Salt Lake City, UT so I could quit. I guess I made them mad.

R
Anytown, California
U.S.A.

Update Submitted by the original author
Submitted: 12/7/2005 9:59:20 AM Modified: 12/7/2005 9:59:20 AM

After having to find my own way back to Salt Lake City from Indiana, it has taken me over a month to collect pay that was witheld from my check. Also, one of my "bonuses" that was supposed to be for $150.00 was reduced to $100.00. I was told to take that or get nothing. Don't work for CR England unless you enjoy getting ripped off.

Roger - Phil Campbell, Alabama
U.S.A.

And the last (I don't have the heart to keep reading them);

I went throug the whole England nightmare back in April of 2004, most of what I have read on here is true, you will need money to last you through school and part of your stay in Utah. Ramen noodles is the lunch you will be served EVERY day while in school. I make it through the whole process obtaining my CDL in May of 2004, while in school I made friends with 5 people that I still stay in touch with. Out of the 5, only one is stil employed there.

I ended my employment owing only $3,500 for a lease truck I had for 3 whole weeks, would have finished the lease if England would have done the repairs I asked for before I took the truck and and $2,700 for school tuition. When I quit, I was threatened by my DM and the lease department that If I didn't bring the truck back to Utah that I would be charged with abandonment and that it would be on my DAC for life, Enland has a ternimal in Chicago which is 275 miles from my house but they wanted the truck back in Utah, so I sat on truck for a few days and told them if they transferred the pay they owed me to my Com Data card immediately and gave me a bus ticket confirmation number that I would return truck to Utah. All was arranged as planned and I then called some friends from school and 4 out of the 5 took their trucks to Chicago amd dropped them off and all have great jobs now including myself. Do your homework before signing ANYTHING! See you all on the road!

Kevin
Granite City, Illinois
U.S.A.

Are those above hearsay? Technically they are, because they are not personally offering them here. Are all of these people lying? I don't think so. All of the above reflect a sampling of the hundreds of complaints out there about the company, and the above have nothing to do with the lease/purchase program complaints.

I will end my part of this discussion with one more simple point.

When a person reads one complaint, it's easy to overlook it. When a person reads repeated instances of complaints that say the same thing over and over, only the obtuse would disregard them.

 

Fair enough. My interest here is simple. When someone is deciding on making a career decision, they deserve to be allowed to make informed decisions. Throw half of everything in the garbage that you read, and there is still one fundamental truth that cannot be overlooked.

For every company commented on in this and all the other forums out there, there are a hundred more that never receive an ill word. I work for one of those companies. They care about their reputation. They care about their employees as well.

I've seen the best and the worst that trucking has to offer. I do my level best to help others avoid some of that worst, because it can hurt to the bone to be taken for a ride.

Just be wary. Don't assume that you will be in control of your own outcome in this thing. Too many have tried to think that way, and have had a rude awakening. I know you've read a bunch of stuff, and I highlighted some of the worst out there, but they are not all to be taken with a grain of salt.

Everyone knows that when you see smoke, the fire is somewhere close by.

Don't be burned by it.

 

You said you live live in Va. I would call National freight up,they are in Lawnside N.J. . If you have a good drivers' record talk to Christene if she is still there. Tell her your story. I worked for them for a year,pay was great, great people most of the time. I only quit because they kept me out for two weeks twice,and my deal at the time was home every weekend. My wife has diabetes and she was having alot of surgery on her eyes at the time. I never hand to fingerprint anything for them. They do use qual com and have a great maintenance program. When you go in for service or anytime,they fix whatever your problem is right away. I met the owner once and the father and so are great. They own alot of warehouses and all those Sun banks around N.J. good luck,let us know how you are doing.

 

I made that comment, and what was meant was don't come here and attempt to tell everyone that everything is hunky dory at CRE before you have any experience with them. Once you are there, you are entitled to any opinion you want to have, but at this point you don't have much experience with them to back you up.

And if you read his post about his life there, you find that it sounds like he is running much harder than is desirable. I don't have any problm with working with receivers to get the load in early, but the idea of running the smaller highways because the main rosads are snowed in, and "driving like a scalded dog" are not recipes for becoming an old trucker. Those are risky tactics that are okay and make you look like a hero when they work, but if they don;t work and you go off the road or get caught too many times running fast, can cause some big problems. I hope he stays safe. it's easy to push it too hard one time and pay a very high price for doing so.

 

You are referring NFI out of Vineland, NJ? My husband drove for them in 2005 he was out of the Columbus, Ohio Terminal. He was suppose to have a dedicated run with Wal-Mart that was suppose to be 3000 miles a week. Well it didn't end up that way. It turned out he was suppose to call Wal-Mart to see if they had anything for him and most of the time there would be nothing, he would have to get a hold of his f/m who in turn would have to scamble to find him something. Also their payroll department is lousey and many times he didn't get paid for all his runs. Plus when it came time to turn the truck in they said he turned it back in dirty (not true) and they withheld all his escrow. Maybe it was only his terminal but I can't recommend NFI.

 

So you want to hear from a former disgruntled CRE driver, huh Lugnut?

I drove for CRE from May thru September, 1998 (after first driving with a trainer for 3 weeks at 11 cents a mile, fresh out of Western Truck School's 2-week course, and with a Nevada CDL in my wallet). They gave me a ratty '94 Freightliner with an older N14 and a 10 speed. The seat height air assisted adjuster gave out a month out--I had to plug the the air hose with a screw, and go buy a big stiff pillow to sit on because it reverted to its lowest setting and stayed there. After 2 weeks I managed to get a whistle stop at home, after being on the road for a straight 42 days, whereupon I measured and cut 4 2x2's to prop the seat up to the height I needed. It was another 3 weeks before CRE brought me into the SLC shop to fix it (they would not pay for a fix away from the yard). I was being paid 21-1/2 cents a mile, and was averaging about 2400 miles a week.

My termination came about after pulling an 11-hour all-nighter (in the days of the 10-hour rule), and arrived in the SLC yard about 7am, for repairs and service. I was kicked out of the truck until noon, and attempted, without success, to get some shut-eye in their noisy dorm. I went out about noon, found the truck parked skiwampus against the yard fence (by the last guy that worked on it), and was too tired to back it up and park it right, but it was surrounded by other trucks, so I wasn't worried about it. I got in, put up a makeshift sun screen in all the windows, and went to sleep. I woke up about 2 hours later, to an incessant BUZZZZ that I last heard in NYC when I ran out of air brake pressure waiting in line at a toll bridge going into Brooklyn (another story!!), but this time, it was due to the engine overheating (never did find out why), and about that time I felt the truck shake rather violently. My fuzzy thinking figured that I was rolling forward into the fence, and that I had no air pressure so the brakes wouldn't stop me, so I put the gear shift into reverse, but it only killed the truck. About that time, someone started pounding on the truck. So I got dressed and got out.

Seems that a trainee was out joyriding in his trainer's truck (with trailer attached) around the yard, without permission or knowledge of said trainer, and had taken a corner too fast, and rammed the back end of my tractor with the front end of the trainer's truck (the other trucks that had been parked to either side of my truck had since been moved, so my truck was really parked wierdly, and the witnesses just naturally assumed that I had done the parking, it being their opinion that the position of my truck contributed to the accident). My attempt to back up just made the damage a little more severe(!).

In attempting to explain my befuddled thinking and actions after being awakened from a very sound sleep, first by the BUZZER that I couldn't shut off, then by being hit (unbeknownst to me at the time), I likened it to a scene from the movie Andromeda Strain where one of the female scientists went into a kind of stupor caused by a red light blinking on and off--she had epilepsy. The safety guy had never seen the movie, and the minute he heard the word "epilepsy" leave my lips, he said "I'm terminating you right now", with no more research into the accident, no talking to the repair tech who parked the truck, nothing. They didn't even fire the trainee, even though HE HIT ME!!. It cost me 3500 dollars to get a CAT scan to prove that I was not, in fact, epileptic, to become eligible to get hired by another company. I thought seriously of filing a lawsuit, but my brother recommended against it because of the size of CRE, and the fact that 1 week later, I got served with divorce papers, and I really just plain didn't give a darn--about life, or much of anything else.

CRE contributed as much as anything else to my divorce due to lack of home time--for the 4-1/2 months I drove for them I was home 4 times, for a total of 7 days. They don't maintain their equipment worth a darn, except in their yard, and they won't pay for repairs anywhere else, unless the truck just up's and quits. I wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy as a company to work for.

 

Surely I am blessed for who I am. Life OTR is rough indeed, but life was always rough. I never made illusions nor promises of big bucks n easy money. I simply stated my facts. Many times I comtemplated quitting, but couldn't go home a failure. I have a wife n kids, a future as
an older gentleman, and I have my God and the ability to focus. The excuses and "blame placing" I left behind. I am dsober1