CAT C15 /6NZ trouble continues

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by truck 307, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Roberts450

    Roberts450 Road Train Member

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    Reading thru this has me thinking that you might not find the problem unless the shop just happens to touch the brake in the wire by accident. I thinking that you might have to take it to a shop that has a chassis dyno and strap her down and load it up into the area that seems to have the highest chance of failure and then go around messing with wires, hoses, while watching the ECM readouts at the same time and hopefully you can recreate your issues. Just throwing out suggestions.



    Only throwing that out there cause back in 04-05 when I was working at CAT (marine and generator engine side) the truck shop had a truck on the dyno for 3-4 hours a day for around a week that was brought down from Alaska. The company it belonged to was complaining that their trucks 625 accerts if I remember right where getting walked all over by 450-500hp cummins powered trucks from their competitors. They went as far as shipping drums of fuel down to find the issue and it turned out to be fuel quality issues from what I remember. The biggest thing that stuck in my mind was they would put full power down (525-550 at the wheels) for like 2 hours at a time and when the truck left the dyno building it left rubber tracks on the concrete approns as the tires had gotten that sticky from the heat.
     
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  3. spsauerland

    spsauerland Road Train Member

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    70 pins per connector. He posted the OEM side. Other 70 pin connector is Cat side. Basically truck builder responsibility on one connector, Cat on other. I would guess you are wiggling 12v battery and ground to ECM, but just guessing.
     
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  4. spsauerland

    spsauerland Road Train Member

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    Did you ever trigger a snapshot when the problem occurs?
     
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  5. truck 307

    truck 307 Light Load Member

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    Thanks pushbroom for your reply. I dont know if you read my initial post but, here goes;
    -all fuel lines, tanks to divider and divertor (supply and return splitting ) valvess replaced.
    -Both fuel tanks removed. Fuel (alluminum) suction/pick-up tubes checked for top cracking as well as plugging.
    -Shut off valve on top of tanks checked for complete open flow.
    -Fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, primary filter head, primer pump, all new
    -Air-Dog fuel/air seperator system installed "correctly" ($3,350.00)
    -fuel return lines checked for obstructed flow, all clear.
    -Every sensor replaced; boost, cam,crank,fuel temp, fuel pressure, atmospheric psi, throttle position sensor etc..
    -Injector harness replaced
    -Engine harness replaced
    - CAT performed (on 3 seperate occasions) cylinder (injector) cut out tests, fuel pressure tests
    -CAT checked for air in system, tested seensors, etc..
    -New batteries installed with new primary cables & hold-downs
    -And the list goes on
    Truck in the shop now. I included my record of how,what when, why the engine stumbles.
    -WAsh water 100% effects my problem, so it must be a open circuit, but where.
     
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  6. truck 307

    truck 307 Light Load Member

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    Yes, ive been doing cruise switch snap shots for 18 months, but nothing shows.
    CAT tells me the ECM doesnt monitor many electrical circuitry, as many think it does.
    The ECM doesnt monitor itself either they say
     
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  7. spsauerland

    spsauerland Road Train Member

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    The snapshot will show 9 secs before and three after you trigger it. What I was getting at while it is not a lot of info, it does show battery voltage, ignition voltage, throttle position, and other inputs on the OEM side. This is where the problem seems to be. I have had a 6NZ with similar popping, bucking, and missing like you describe, but was not water related. Issue was year old reman injectors. Finally able to get to act up in shop by making sure air compressor was pumping, a/c running and fan manually on. Revved it to governor, let out 100 rpm, a smashed it to floor and it would miss badly. Only missed driving when over 40MPH and when rolling back in throttle sometimes. Unable to isolate which injector it was, so pulled exhaust manifold and repeated same throttle smash with loads. Miss was super evident on two cylinders. Needless to say we put six new, not reman injectors in it. Did have a Detroit that would miss only when wet. Put in shop with garden hose and sprayed away while running. Spray at the ECM and would miss, dry up a little and miss was gone. New ECM fixed that one. These are just ideas and it is very hard to diagnose without being able to see, hear and feel your truck. You have taken the correct approach to keeping it simple and covering your bases. I sure hope you find this one and I wish you were in the lower 48 cause I would love a shot at helping you on this one. Seems like it is always the guys that take the best care of there trucks have the most of the wall problems and people who don't take care of them have no issues!
     
  8. truck 307

    truck 307 Light Load Member

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    Sps
     
  9. truck 307

    truck 307 Light Load Member

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    To Spsauerland, i want to thank you for your efforts in trying to help me.
    If this interests you, when the temperatures here warm up to a comfortable outdoor temperature
    (now, we are into the -15 to -30 degree range, its cold..!!) and my truck issue remains unresolved, we will chat and i will offer you a flight ticket to come focus on my issue and help resolve it.
    But anyway, hopefully by the time warm weather comes around, my problem will be far behind me.
    On another note, my truck was at the shop for the bulk of this week. An old school farm district
    "i give a crap" (cant swear on this site or posts are blocked) type of 4 bay shop.
    The owner himself has dedicated himself to finding my issue (this is also the shop that installed the wet-line on my truck between me beating it up before buying it, and taking delivery of it and putting it to work (ya, i know. My 18 month back-track keeps asking..."so what happened as a result of wet line install"... no welding was done so no electrical damage to the ECM could have occured, trust me, ive broken down each and every second after sitting on a chair in the mechanics lunch room, taking notes, asking questions, etc I have done it all)
    Anyway, so the shop owner called me yesterday (he put 12 hours into diagnosing my problem, again, with 1 of his other electrical specialist techs) Each pin on the OEM side was tested while another tech wiggled, wet down and pulled on each OEM wire ( circuits on the OEM side include; Throttle position sensor, speed sensor, positive and negative power to the ECM, one set of 3 such sets of power to the ECM, and so on) With one thing catching his eye.
    18 months ago, during one of my many 90 minute drives to CAT Ontario head office / shop in Concord Ontario ,i dropped off the truck for 9 days under a pre-booked appointment to do so while my wife and i went to The Dominican. days later, CAT said; "well, we found a broken wire pair, burned and all melted, going to and about a foot from, your speed sensor (road speed) so we fixed that up for you, hopefully that fixes your dilemna " (which it always pulls tip-top after leaving a shop, 100%, all the time, but the next day its back.)
    When i crawled under the truck i saw that, yes, they section repaired it, but didnt twist it, which when i asked the desk kid, he said " no, twisting is just to give both wires strength" which i replied
    " NO, TWISTING OF WIRES SENDS THE MAGNETIC FIELD IN THE SAME FORM AND FASHION AS IT WAS CREATED" but i was out-gunned by his title plack which he flashed at me, saying he "knows a little about trucks", so i left it be. But yesterday i was told by my technician that my understanding of twisted pairs was in fact correct, so he built another twisted -pair braided wire section to go directly from the speed sensor to the OEM port on the ECM.
    Tuesday will be my first cchance to test the truck...heres hoping.
    Also, yes, my truck took a ride on the Dyno about 16 months ago. I also changed fuel supplier for 3 full tanks full. Another test was to run one load (6+ hours) come home, put truck in my little shop, plug the return fuel from getting to one tank , dedicating but only the other fuel tank to feeding the engine, and then vice/versa. Another test was when i built a stratoflex fuel line, sucking directly out of one tank (filler neck) going directly to fuel (primary filter head) and then to new pump. Another was to open up the orifice on the fuel flow at inlet to front of head.
    No go, so returned all to original. Next, i reversed flow through the head. Next, i reversed flow through the head with larger orifice. You name it, ive done it. I just wanted to find resolution, and put it behind me.
    Well, im off to go get my truck.
    All my thanks. Looking forward to your continued support ( i definetely do need it)
    My direct # to text me; 905 746 5505 (in the event you need some quick reply info from me, or any reason at all)
     
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  10. spsauerland

    spsauerland Road Train Member

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    Keep us posted on any news. Don't blame you on trying to stay out of the cold. Thought the 6 F here in Indiana was cold! Like they say it could always be worse. Besides being annoying, those misfires take a toll on the engine especially head gaskets. Hoping you get this #### resolved soon! I will go ahead and save your phone number in my phone.
     
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  11. Cat sdp

    Cat sdp . .

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    Have you ever tried a different ecm......?


    Just to rule it out....
     
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