CSA 2010...Government Garbage

Discussion in 'Experienced Truckers' Advice' started by Longshot34, Sep 26, 2010.

  1. Longshot34

    Longshot34 Light Load Member

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    Jul 3, 2010
    InTheSticks, USA
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    I have yet to find a thread on this so...lets get it started. I had to attend a mandatory "meeting" yesterday to help us "better understand and adapt to the new way 'the feds' want us to do things." In my opinion, CSA 2010 is a pile of steaming government crap! 1.) Its a way to minumize the trucks on the road (because many will quit or be forced to do so...if not fired) 2.) Its nothing more then a tool to revive the demenishing revenue of the federal government as well as the individual state. 3.) It's yet another tool for "big brother" to keep a literal "eye on you". 4.) It is going to greatly reduce productivity. 5.) It is going to cause all of the "maw & paw" carriers to go under. 6.) It is going to force many many carriers to get rid of, AKA FIRE, ALOT OF DRIVERS!!! You might be ok if your a new driver and have never been through an inspection. Or if your a new driver that has been lucky enough to have never recieved a violation.
    The meeting that I attended yesterday was held by a DOT agent that flat out told us, "I sit outside of lumber yards just waiting to give overweight tickets." "Somedays I sit and 'target' fatbeds only, if I see straps, I know I'm handing out a violation because if your straps are this far off [indicating about 8 inches with his hands] that is technically a violation and I WILL cite you for it". He also said, "Somedays I will ask my wife, 'what is the color of the day?' If she tells me red, then you can bet every red truck I see is getting pulled, if she tells me blue, then every blue truck I see is getting pulled, if she tells me white, then I'll have 2 or 3 Swift trucks on the shoulder all day long. [laughs] FUNNY....I DIDNT THINK THAT WAS FUNNY AT ALL!!!!!! He also said, "If I pull you, you may as well get your check book out because I AM going to find something that is a violation in some way, shape, or form...after all, I'm not pulling you just to show you my pretty face." WOW...what %&##%^$ nerve!!!!!!!Anyway, after listening to this babbling baboon for nearly 5 hrs, I walked away learning a few universal truths...CSA 2010 is designed to screw the little guys, force veteren drivers off the roads, make new drivers controllable monkeys, and most of all, make BIG BUCKS for the federal and state governments. In other words, I learned that CSA 2010 was created to %$## the driver and the carrier! NOT to make the roads safer! NOT to ensure every driver is at the top of his game. NOT to reduce "crash causation". CSA 2010 is nothing more then a HUGE revenue generator for state and federal governments!!!! How many will lose life long careers over this? How many new drivers will have to go back to what they HATED doing before because they can't make it in a "perfect world" now? How bad is this going to hurt MY bank account? (and yes, the DOT agent said it could/would) How much of my day is going to spent in the inspection lot when I could have been making my delivery?(he also said this is absolutely going to be an issue) How much time is going to be wasted doing all the extra paper work to ensure your #$$ is covered? How many customers will my company loose simply because we will not be able to deliver in the same timely manner that we used to before getting pulled in every state, and having our drive hrs reduced?(he also said that this WILL happen to many) And the big one...HOW MANY AMERICAN JOBS IS CSA 2010 GOING TO COST US???? (he didn't want to get into that one!!!)
    There are ALOT of rumors out there about what is soon to come. And many of them are just that, rumors! I have read every single piece of documentation released to the general public as well as the trucking industry, I have set through a total of 3 training sessions for the "changes to come", and it doesn't hurt having an insider that goes to my church letting me know what is true (as of right now) and what is false (as of right now). So...whats on your mind? Who has something to say? Any questions about this pile of BS we are soon going to have to deal with? Any complaints?
    I'm not going to tell you guys that I can answer any and all of your questions, nor am I pretending that I can, but, I can answer alot of them. So, let hear whats on your mind.
    :biggrin_25516::biggrin_25510::biggrin_2555::biggrin_25510::biggrin_25510::biggrin_25510::biggrin_25510::biggrin_25516::biggrin_25516::biggrin_25516::biggrin_25516::biggrin_25516::biggrin_25516::biggrin_25516::biggrin_25516::biggrin_25516:
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2010
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  3. Gr8oldies

    Gr8oldies Light Load Member

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    Aug 3, 2010
    Michigan
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    For me the jury is still out on CSA 2010. I work for one of those Maw and Paw companies for almost 20 years and I and the company have an excellent safety record. In fact the state police just recently came in and for about 7 hours he helped us get all our ducks in a row with all the paperwork and inspected our trucks and advised us on what was coming.With what I am seeing it's a lot of typical government BS on a lot of things but what are you going to do?In my humble opinion if you are a safe driver and if your company takes care of the equipment you have nothing to worry about.
     
  4. thelastamericanhippy

    thelastamericanhippy Road Train Member

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    jacksonville, fl
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    After reading your post,

    I have NO question !!!!
     
  5. Longshot34

    Longshot34 Light Load Member

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    Jul 3, 2010
    InTheSticks, USA
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    MANY companies that are in the "pilot states", had an outstanding "safty record" under the current FMCSA system, only to find that their "score" under CSA 2010 is/was deficient. In fact, there was a company in Kansas that looked great when under the SafeSat program...both driver and vehicle scores were excellent. However CSA 2010 generated a unsafe driving record for them, which was attributed to crashes...crashes that never even happened!!! This score was generated because a few drivers received violations during a road-side inspection. One received a log book violation, which falls under "Fatigued driving" in the CSA 2010 BASIC. Combined this equalled a deficiant (high) score for unsafe driving and crashes. Of course the company declared that they have NEVER had a "reportable" crash, so investigators decided to take a closer look. As they did, they pointed out that the paper logs had not been compared to the satellite data from fueling, tolls, etc. in quite some time. The carrier complied and spent months comparing the data in exchange for a "conditional safty rating". During the companies internal "investigation" they found that, "no less then 5 and no more then 10..." of their 50 drivers, had "a few log entries that did not match within 1 hour or 50 miles of the satellite data from fuel pumps and tolls." So, in order to lower their [the company] "conditional safty score", they fired the "trouble drivers". Some that had been employed by this carrier for years! In short, CSA 2010 once again proves to be nothing more then total BS!!!! What this senerio boiled down to was the company having to decide, "should be pay the extra 2 grand and continue to employ these drivers that have served us well for many years, OR, should we just get rid of them, save a few bucks and go on... And what do you think they chose to do? They choose to put hard working, family providing drivers out of work, and basically leaving them unemployable, in order to save a couple grand and reduce that BS "conditional" score by a few points, that at the end of the day, really doesn't mean squat about how safe or unsafe a carrier/driver *really* is!!!! As I said before, a DOT agent held the last meeting that I attended. His exact words, "for those of you [carriers] that *think* you have a perfect record, you are about to have a rude awakening". And just like I said before, CSA 2010 is a vile pile of government crap! PERIOD! Will we have to deal with it? Of course? But that's not the question...the question should be, how are we going to deal with this when no matter what we do, no matter how proactive we are, we will still be backed in the same preverbiale corner with big brothers eye constantly peering down on us! O, did I fail to mention that their is absolutely zero incentive for drivers or carriers to keep a lower BASIC score? The only incentive...you won't have to write a check if we do EVERYTHING we are told, exactly how we are told to do it! One thing to think about, the "instructor" that held this meeting actually said this, "just think of it this way, the people that wrote this [CSA 2010] have never seen the inside of a truck, they set in their corporate offices and spin these ideas all day, coming up with the easiest way to revive a depleating revenue...just make up your mind that you are not going to contribute your hard earned dollars to their cause." I couldn't have said it better myself!
     
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  6. ChromeDome

    ChromeDome Road Train Member

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    Jun 10, 2007
    Lakeland, FL
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    You said it all in the final sentence.
    "Just make up your mind that you are not going to contribute your hard earned dollars to their cause."

    You can do this by running legal and keeping your maintenance up.
    If you choose not to do those things, then you will wrack up points and you will have issues.
    CSA2010 has no new inspection criteria for drivers or trucks. You will still be inspected for the same things you have always had.
    If you are professional and keep things up then you will have no issues.
    If a DOT officer decides that every truck he pulls over will get a ticket for something, then over time this will show. And he will eventually get fired or have to be retrained. Due to all the complaints.
    All complaints against Officers go onto their permanent record. Get enough of them and you will have issues. Same with drivers. Get enough points and you will have issues.

    The company you are talking about was flying under the radar under safestat. This is why CSA2010 was made.
    Since the intervention you are talking about the points for different things have been adjusted, and will continue to be fine tuned as this thing rolls out.
    At the moment the biggest thing company's are having issues with is form and manner violations on logs. Because drivers are not keeping logs up to date and with all info filled out.
    This is what will lead many company's to swapping to e-logs. And is the reason my company is going to them now. Even though our rating under CSA2010 is very good.

    At this time all company's know what there score is under CSA, it is all online for them now to review. So if they are deficient they can start working on changing.
     
  7. allycatt2

    allycatt2 Light Load Member

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    Oct 22, 2009
    I'VE BEEN EVERYWHERE
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    I agree,CSA2010 is Total Federal Government Garbage, if left unchanged, this is one of the worst pieces of legislation to come into the trucking industry perhaps ever. What I find amazing right now is that with a slight pickup in the economy there is 16+ percent unemployment and yet all carriers are struggling now to hire quality drivers and when CSA really kicks in next year you will see the results of that even more in 2011. A system that is based on inconsistent data and a flawed scoring methodology. Meet The Stooges of Trucking Regulation.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. Trashtrucker1265

    Trashtrucker1265 Road Train Member

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    Inverness, Fl
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    I think a lot of this "if you're a professional" you'll have no problem mentality is kind of bs. There are things on a truck that are totally out of your hand as a driver, I have a 2010 Mack Pinnacle and was recently cited for an o-ring that had started to deteriorate within a brake valve on my steer axle, mind you this was an internal o-ring and I would have never in my right mind found the problem. My truck was showing no indication of a leak down problem, I have weekends off and every Monday I came in and had no less than 100 pounds. This took place during brake safety week, my point is that there was really no way me, you, or anyone else out here would have caught this problem, the officer directed me out of the truck to point out what he found and I could not hear the air leaking out, but I had no fight in the matter. What kills me is my truck is brand new, 83,XXX miles, I take pride in keeping it up, keeping my paperwork neat and up to date and I get hit with this?:biggrin_25513: Here's what I did, I took the truck to the dealer, had the problem fixed and returned to that same scale house and volunteered for a level 1 inspection, thank god I passed it and was issued my CVSA sticker for my truck. I know I'm long winded here, it just bothers me that all my efforts to present myself and my truck in a professional manner can just go up in flames due to the mood the officer is in on any given day, it's scary as hell to think about what the future holds, all I can do as a driver is keep my t's crossed and my i's dotted and hope for the best.
     
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  9. GasHauler

    GasHauler Master FMCSA Interpreter

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    Vegas/Jersey
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    I believe something has to be done to get the dangerous drivers out of the trucks. If you're a professional then you know what's coming and you change what you need to change. I drove over 20 years and never was put out of service and never had any serious violations. I haven't got a speeding ticket since 1985 on my motorcycle and never one in a truck. So you can do it. Besides, the good drivers will be in demand and just maybe there might be a pay increase.
     
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  10. rbht

    rbht Heavy Load Member

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    Jan 23, 2010
    CT,NH
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    Its not about safty, never has bin never will be, if it was realy about truck safty then every quarter we should have to have are trucks inspected and what needs to be fixed fixed and if every thing is good your good for 3 months but we all know its about the all mighty dollar. You guys that think this is good need to have your heads examined the gov is over regulating and i believe it will bite the hole industry in the butt sooner than later. And another big issue is you have dot cops out there that dont even know all the rules themselves and make it up as they go i have first hand exsperiance with it. Got written up for unsecure load had 5 chains on a 40,000lb loader and the cop said cross chaining cut the working load of the chains in half bs, i've asked 6 dot cops since that day and every one said cross chaining did not cut the working load in half now i have an unsecured load on my record because 1 dot cop did'nt know what he was doing. This hole thing is BS in my book.
     
  11. rbht

    rbht Heavy Load Member

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    Jan 23, 2010
    CT,NH
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    How can we get rid of bad drivers when they train them and put em in trucks as fast as they can.
     
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