Cummins ISX15 Liner defect causes high oil consumption

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by dieselralph, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. dieselralph

    dieselralph Bobtail Member

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    Attached are details of defective liners leading to high oil consumption. Cummins usually addressed out of warranty issues using "Policy" dollars. If outside base warranty then easy to get "Policy" help at 75 percent up to 4 years and 400,000 miles or 50%-25% at up to 500,000 miles.
     
    mhyn and Canucklehead Thank this.
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  3. Pmarrero88

    Pmarrero88 Bobtail Member

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    I’m confused can you explain this more in debt I’ve been using 2 to 3 gallons every 15,000 I noticed I have some old oil backup around top right of engine but not down pour leaking...
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  4. DieselTech_Aus

    DieselTech_Aus Light Load Member

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    with EGR engines the carbon build up is excessive.

    the carbon builds up around the top of the piston. primarily from the crown down to the top ring. the carbon builds up around the side of the piston crown also. it packs itself tight between the side of the piston crown and the liner. carbon is harder than cast iron. so with a carbon packed piston running up and down the liner the carbon actually removes material from the liner much like if you were to rub sandpaper up and down the liner. it removes enough material so the cross hatching honed into the liner is polished away.

    the updated liners have a ring that scrapes the carbon off the piston crown every time it arrives at TDC.

    once the cross hatching is gone and the liner walls are polished it will burn through oil like a champion.

    generally with carbon polished liners the oil consumption will progressively get worse over time.

    if your oil consumption is stable, I would think this is not your issue.
     
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  5. dieselralph

    dieselralph Bobtail Member

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    "DieselTech_Aus" - You are describing a completely different failure mode due to the poorly designed cylinder kit and insufficient cooling near the top of the cylinder.

    The defect described in the attached TSB is do to a manufacturing defect of the liners themselves. The liners are made in China by a Wisconsin supplier named Menominee. The liners are then shipped to Menominee in WI and machined. The problem is the were using a 3 stone hone on the liners which left a lobing pattern of high and low spots that would then cause oil consumption. This oil consumption woul happen early life and be noticeable before 50K miles of delivery of truck. The supplier ran into supply issues keeping up with demand and perhaps used a cheaper hone or sped up the process which caused the issue. The curious thing is, when they fell behind, they asked their Chinese supplier to help out be doing some honing in China. The Chinese used a 6 stone hone and suffered NO lobing issues. Anyway when the liners were supplied to Cummins there was no distinguishing which liners we WI Vs China honed. You could have had an engine with liners from both in one engine. Cummins has no quality control process for determining which supplier honing process was used so its possible to have two engines built in a row with all Chinese, all Wisconsin or a mixture during this time.

    So, if you have early life high oil consumption it is NOT carbon packing. It is probably liner lobing and should have the liners replaced. You also want them to replace the pistons to the new "APR" (Anti-Polishing Ring" style piston liner to avoid future Carbon packing issues.

    in a nutshell, I wouldn't touch a 2010-2013 built ISX15 engine with high oil consumption unless the APR cylinder kit was installed and the DPF was replaced with new or a factory Recon. Also these engines suffered terrible fuel pump failure rates due to ceramic plunger failures in the fuel pump due to debris in the oil due to a poorly designed oil bypass valve that would stick open and allow unfiltered oil through. Also the Camshafts were prone to damage from having too much of a crown on the rollers leading to high stress there and poor roller bearing materials that would degrade and oxidize causing them the hang or stutter thus causing the oil film to be scraped off the camshaft and scratching it. Once scratched, the cam would eventually beat on that scratch until it flat spotted.

    Combine all this with the big 1000+ truck fleets pushing longer and longer oil intervals and its was a recipe for disaster.
     
    mhyn Thanks this.
  6. Ironmyke

    Ironmyke Light Load Member

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    I recently did my EGR tune up ( thank you Rawze ) and while I had the intake manifold off to clean it, I saw that my number 3 valve was wet and all the others were dry. The CM 2350 engine has been using alot of oil, like 1 gallon to every 2000 miles, so it could be thats where it's loosing at. I called Cummins technical support and he said that according to the Cummins that is acceptable usage 1 quart to every 500 miles which i find as ridiculous oil usage.
     
  7. Roll'n field repairs

    Roll'n field repairs Bobtail Member

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    To be correct it's 1 quart per 750 miles at a fuel economy above 5mpg, so 1 gallon per 2k miles is excessive. Do you know how far apart your last 10 regens have been...if you have all this info contact your local Cummins distributor not your truck dealer and they will give you repair options
     
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  8. JonJon78

    JonJon78 Road Train Member

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    How many miles are on that engine?
     
  9. mi38

    mi38 Light Load Member

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  10. mi38

    mi38 Light Load Member

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    We just had an engine failure due to this liner at 437,000 miles. We are looking at a minimum $20,000 rebuild. We are being told Cummins "may" pay some toward replacing the liner, but none of the damage caused by the failure which is the majority of the cost. Is there anything we can do to get them to cover all the cost due to the liner failure?
     
  11. pushbroom

    pushbroom Road Train Member

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    What exactly happened? Carbon packing resulting in oil consumption?
    Original owner?
    Did you purchase extended warranty?
    All of this comes into play when requesting policy,
     
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