Do DOT hours of service apply when flying?

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by occupant, Jun 25, 2009.

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  1. occupant

    occupant Bobtail Member

    Feb 24, 2009
    SE Hill County, TX
    Somewhere in my employee handbook it states that they qualify bus trips, airline flights, and personal vehicle driving as On Duty if it is to get to a terminal to pick up a truck. Is this true? If I'm flying from Waco to Vegas, 5.5hr flight, does this come out of my On Duty Not Driving hours for a given day? Truck needs to be in Tulsa on the streets working 10am-6pm if at all possible...I'll break down a timeline for you and use ONLY central time:


    945am to 315pm flight to Vegas
    315pm to 400pm waiting for pickup
    400pm to 800pm ride with another driver in the truck
    800pm drop him off at his hotel, fuel up, and head towards Tulsa

    So far I have 5.5 hours in the plane, .75 hours off duty waiting for him to come get me, 4.0 hours riding as a passenger in the truck. That's 10.25 hours. So I can only drive for 4.5 hours before I hit the 14-hour clock?

    I might make Flagstaff...but Albuquerque seems to be out of the question?!!

    If I don't log the flight time as on duty, if it is legal to do so, then I would have 4 hours on duty not driving with the other guy, then I should be able to drive 10 more hours? I might just make ABQ if I have 10hrs. Let's say the flight time is not loggable for a moment.

    800pm to midnight 4 hours driving time
    midnight to 600am 6 hours driving time, gets me to ABQ.
    600am to 400pm 10 hours off duty (7 in a hotel, 3 doing laundry, eating food, internet access, etc)
    400pm to midnight 8 hours driving time
    midnight to 200am 2 hours driving time, gets me to Tulsa
    200am to 1000am off duty, 8 hours
    1000am to 600pm 8 hours driving time in market
    *600pm to midnight 6 hours off duty
    midnight to 10am 10 more hours off duty
    10am-6pm 8 hours driving around Tulsa*

    *-* Days repeat like this between the stars until mid-August except for not driving at all on Sundays, which would get me a 34 hour reset (40 hours actually)

    Is it possible at all, to get a full shift in on Monday 10-6, or do I have to have that full 10 hours to reset the clock, starting at noon instead of 10am? Can anyone show me where the violations would be, if any, and what I would have to do to fix it?

    How does that work when you're flying for the company to go get a truck, is it loggable, or considered off-duty? How would YOU log it?
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  3. 2fuzy

    2fuzy Road Train Member

    Jun 19, 2008
    Granite Canon,WY
    if its not on paper it didn't happen
  4. Nighthawk34

    Nighthawk34 Light Load Member

    May 3, 2009
    Salem, OR
    Like Fuzzy says "if its not on paper it didn't happen... And the theory a guy I used to drive for would use if asked about how/when you got to Vegas to pick up the truck..... well Just happend to be out there that weekend on a personal trip and the company called and said while your out there..... :biggrin_25525: we actually used that line on more than one occasion LOL
  5. lowbudget

    lowbudget Medium Load Member

    Apr 12, 2008
    Bismarck, ND
    If the truck isn't loaded, I wouldn't log any of it.
  6. occupant

    occupant Bobtail Member

    Feb 24, 2009
    SE Hill County, TX
    Truck is under CDL, 14500 or 19500 depending on how new or old it is. I am told by the company I must stop at open scales and keep logs in between markets, but not once *IN* the market. So I have to use the HOS log from Vegas to Tulsa because it is interstate travel and I am carrying the 60lb box of ads that will be placed on the truck once it's in Tulsa. Can't have the ads on the truck in between to satisfy the FCC, it's a long story.

    I think I can get it done if I ignore the flying part then. I do have a couple of friends in Vegas so I suppose I can say I was staying with them for awhile and then got this job to go do. I don't want to offend any inspectors, but I do want to get in market on time. I suppose it'll work as scheduled but we know nothing runs on schedule I guess.

    Anyone asks me for a bill of lading and I'll not know what to say. I'm carrying company property but nothing for hire, so I guess I'm ok there?
  7. candun

    candun Bobtail Member

    May 27, 2009
    Raleigh, NC
    With all due respect to this "wisdom" from the experienced drivers the requirement you are referring to is not just in your employee handbook. The FMCSR Sec. 395.1(j) states:

    "when a property-carrying commercial motor vehicle driver, at the direction of the motor carrier, is traveling but not driving or assuming any other responsibility to the carrier, such time must be counted as on-duty time unless the driver is afforded at least 10 consecutive hours off-duty when arriving at destination"

    If your carrier is dispatching you to travel, by any means, and upon arrival to immediately begin to drive, then the travel time counts as part of your 14 hours.
    occupant, dieselbear and biggeno Thank this.
  8. occupant

    occupant Bobtail Member

    Feb 24, 2009
    SE Hill County, TX
    candun, you are a gentleman and a saint!

    If there's a rule, then that's what I'll go by. The dispatcher might get upset, but I'm not violating on my first drive. I hope she books a Flagstaff hotel for the first night, otherwise she'll get a call from me at what will be 1:30am her time to load up my blue card to pay for a hotel room wherever I hit that 14.

    Thank you for checking on that candun, the FMSCA rules are a little tough to navigate and google searches get me nothing except this thread right here!!!
  9. Mike_MD

    Mike_MD Medium Load Member

    Feb 4, 2009
    Are drivers so bold to believe they do any thing and get away with it?

    The carrier pays for the airlines tickets and pays the driver's salary. Doesn't it make sense there is a record of the trip?

    Drivers have to understand that when the FMCSA comes knocking the carrier's files are an open book. The FMCSA does not require a subponea to look at every record the carrier has.

    Carriers that fail to keep the required records for the HOS have just as many problems as the carriers that keep every thing:

    The violations listed are all CRITICAL violations. For a carrier with five drivers 150 records are checked for the HOS. Once 10% is hit in any of the violations listed the best rating a carrier can esxpect is a CONDITIONAL rating.

    Chances are the carrier will be sent a Notice of Claim for HOS violations:

    Drivers that make bad choices cost their employers thousands of dollars in penalties, loss of customers due to a less than satisfactory rating, and increased insurance premium cost.

    Get a grip folks, the days of outlaw trucking is disappearing. CSA 2010 is rapidly approaching which means more carriers will be visited by the FMCSA. Carriers with crappy roadside inspection data will suffer the consequences sans a compliance review.

    Be safe.
    kickin chicken and dieselbear Thank this.
  10. occupant

    occupant Bobtail Member

    Feb 24, 2009
    SE Hill County, TX
    yeah...all that...and a bag of chips...

    I just hope I can do this right. Even if I have to pay out of pocket for the hotel and submit the receipt for reimbursement. And if they book me an ABQ hotel they better unbook it because there's no way I can get there legally. They'll probably just refund the plane ticket and hire someone who'll falsify their logbook for them. My luck, first job they hire me, don't care about my misdemeanor, pay me ok, and I'll be fired before I can start. :(
  11. Working Class Patriot

    Working Class Patriot Road Train Member

    Jan 17, 2008
    Wherever and Whenever...
    PM either psanderson or Diesel Bear.......Anderson is a retired DOT and Diesel Bear is DOT. Both btw are very knowledgeable and will help you without the condescending attitude.
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