Do I need a CDL if my truck is an F350? Confused on weights too!

Discussion in 'Expediter and Hot Shot Trucking Forum' started by The3SomeTrailer, Dec 25, 2018.

  1. The3SomeTrailer

    The3SomeTrailer Light Load Member

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    Forgive me, I have been scouring this site and finally joined to ask my few questions. Any help will be really appreciated. I am in the industry, but deciding whether to enter the carrier side as a driver in addition.

    1. Do I need a CDL if my truck is an F350 Dually Super Duty (will have the 11,400 lbs designation, & would also like to know if that matters) and my trailer is a Take3 Model53 (has a 20k GVWR)?

    I'm confused by the weight of the truck and LOADED trailer being over 26,001 lbs and needing a CDL at that point. It would appear that my truck AND loaded trailer will be over 26,000 lbs occasionally.

    But if someone could just point blank answer me this; if I plan on operating the stated F350 (11,400 lbs GVWR) and Trailer with 18,000lbs on it (still under its 20k limit) WILL I NEED A CDL?

    2. I have heard it is hard to make money with a 3 car hauler. I completely understand the argument. My situation is unique however so I would appreciate input from experienced vets, I will have NO PROBLEM finding 1-2-3 vehicle loads, I will actually have a choice of which ones I would like. I live outside of Atlanta. I am looking at loads strictly on Central Dispatch and never want to do any "long hauls"... basically leave the house in the AM around 7 after the kids, drive out, load up 3 units, drive them, drop them, and go home. Assuming I bought all new equipment my truck and trailer and insurance are roughly $3k/month (overestimating for safety, right? I figured around $75k for the truck $1100/mo, $15k, $750/mo for the trailer and Insurance roughly $1000/mo for the first year at least totals $2850/mo for equipment and insurance).

    I see loads, for example, 3 cars at Manheim, the 2 cars together pay $350 and the single pays $200. So the total load is paying $550. My mileage from home to auction, to drop #1, to drop #2, back home is roughly 300miles. If I get 10mpg..it costs me (30 gals x $2.50/gal = $75)...so that's $475 for the day after gas. If I work 20days a month that's $9500. Uf I subtract out the equipment and insurance...I'm at $6500/month. I know repairs and maintenance are TRUE costs to factor. See next question.

    3. What does it cost to do, for example, an oil change on an F350 6.7L diesel engine? After how many miles does one need to do that usually? Aside from tires, what are the other parts and service I will need to be prepared for to replace and how often?

    4. Are there any huge pointers anyone can advise for a new, Georgia based, short haul, 3 car wedge driver?

    MERRY CHRISTMAS YALL!
     
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  3. Humblepie

    Humblepie Pontificator

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    If you are capable of hauling over 26k you will need a cdl. Even empty
     
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  4. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    Everything goes off GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)
    There are a couple limits to be mindful of.

    1. 10,001 lbs GCVWR (The extra C means combined, I.E. Truck and Trailer) means you are a CMV and must have DOT numbers, driver file, time cards, etc...
    2. 26,001 lbs GCVWR or more means you need a CDL to drive the vehicle. Will also need to follow all the drug testing rules.
    3. 10,001 lbs Trailer GVWR means the CDL has to be a class A CDL.

    The trailer is 20K, the truck is 11.5K, so a total of 31.5K GCVWR. As the trailer is over 10K lbs, the CDL will need to be a class A CDL.

    As for the price, what you are not factoring in is equipment costs. Pulling that much weight even on a 1 ton is a killer. The truck will not live long enough to do a 72 month payment plan...
     
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  5. The3SomeTrailer

    The3SomeTrailer Light Load Member

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    Couple questions to your response...and forgive me, I am new, virgin material.

    The max 5th wheel rating is 34k lbs on the F350 DUALLY. The most I would be pulling is 20k lbs (the max of the trailer as stated, but I would guess the heaviest load I would pull is 15000lbs (3x Explorers). That is less than 50% of the F350s max. Or should I be adding it as roughly 10k lbs of weight for the trailer itself PLUS 15k lbs for the 3 SUVs = 25k lbs (which is 66% of the F350s 34k lbs max 5th wheel weight towing).

    So are you saying pulling 15k lbs on a 10k lbs trailer is going to beat up my max34k lbs truck?

    If so, what's going to be the equipment costs I am going to come across? What equipment is going to fail? There are barely any moving parts on the trailer (no powered trailer moving parts) or are you saying even this weight will burn out my truck still? Like the brakes?

    Please, be as detailed as possible.
     
  6. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    Your problem is confusing Weight with Weight Rating. All the requirements are for Weight Rating. Actual weight doesn't matter, stop thinking about it. Everything goes off Weight Ratings.

    As for beating the truck up, yes. Those max weights are not really designed for continuous use. The axle, the transmission, the brakes, even the injectors will start failing as the vehicle was not designed to run 50k miles in a year. There is a huge difference in hauling a 25K trailer 3-4 times a year vs. hauling a 25K trailer 300 days a year
     
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  7. Bakerman

    Bakerman Road Train Member

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    Normally, people buy these trucks to pull their camper up to the mountains or to the dunes a few times a year than done.

    They weren’t really designed for commercial use, every day being maxed out or close to maxed out on weight.

    If you want to do the pick up thing, you might want to look at stepping up to 450, 550 or 650.

    I think those are designed more for commercial applications.
     
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  8. SteerTire

    SteerTire Road Train Member

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    My son in-law pulls at weight often, moving his own equipment.

    While many others will disagree with me. FORD is not the vehicle to do it with. You want to go with a Dodge. You’ll save money on fuel, and actually be able to get out of other people’s way.

    On another note. You have really restricted your ability to make money with your plan of business. Maybe you should consider offering to drive peoples cars to where they want them.
     
  9. The3SomeTrailer

    The3SomeTrailer Light Load Member

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    Wow. Ok man, thank you. I was totally under the impression dudes were out there running f350 duallies like semis because they were diesel. I'm gonna rework the the numbers on an f450....can I bounce a few more questions off you once I do?
     
  10. The3SomeTrailer

    The3SomeTrailer Light Load Member

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    Ok so I am totally open to discussing it further because nothing is done yet. And I appreciate your input. I'd like to discuss this further if you're ok with it. Tell me more about the Dodge vs Ford argument if you could.

    I currently own a brokerage. What I am noticing over the past 7 years is that the Atlanta area (where I live) and 200mile radius around it has a continuous supply of up to 4 car loads. I figured I could be running a truck for some of my regular clients in the area and be collecting basically both ends. Normal day for me now is cold calling. But seeing how instead I could be on the road still making some bluetooth cold calls, and still be out the door with the kids and home for dinner and be making an extra $200-500 per day is enticing.

    My wife and son have some MAJOR medical expenses coming up this year, and the next, and I am willing to do whatever I have to in order to grind out the extra $100k~ish I am going to need to have by 2020.

    Let me know what you think is feasible without long hauls, based in ATL.

    I appreciate it
     
  11. rbrtwbstr

    rbrtwbstr Road Train Member

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    Yes, you do need a CDL to run such a combination. Your trailer alone puts you in CDL territory.

    I don't know how it is in the area you live, but around home here in PA, the DOT really loves to harass the pickup/gooseneck trailer crowd. Usually these guys get busted trying to skirt the registration laws, and only have the truck registered for the max weight of the truck only. To be legal, your registration must include the combination rating.

    So in your case, with a 11400lb rated truck, along with 20k trailer, your combination rating needs to be 31400 to be legal. And the max combination weight rating should be on the door sticker. Whatever THAT number is, is the max weight you'll be allowed to register the truck.

    Another thing, the trailer you reference, you mention a 20k weight rating. That's the trailer and the cargo included. So if the trailer weighs 8000lbs, you're only legal with 12000 cargo. Or to be a little more practical, say you're truck and trailer is registered at 31400 gcw, and the total of the truck and trailer weigh 16000, you can only legally haul 15400 on the trailer, even though the trailer is rated at 20.

    As far as wear and tear on a one ton truck, yeah, it's gonna wear out quicker than the soccer mom hauling groceries would. I wouldn't let that stop me from doing it. Big trucks wear out as well, just slower. As long as it makes money, who cares?
     
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